Global Rum Club: Tossers?

[Capn Jimbo]

As you know, it's my curmudgeonly job to tilt windmills, to press the edges, but there's a trick to it...


...you have to know where that edge is and to always, always refrain from getting personal. Accordingly I carefully started posting on the GRC facebook page, raising the notions of sugar content, premiumization and the like. All done with careful respect and nothing really personal. An example:

"Ian Burrell 5:41pm Jun 21
Gautom Looking forward to it too. With your passion behind it, it'll be a success.

Robert A. Burr 5:47pm Jun 21
Yes, a new breed of rum from India.

Save Caribbean Rum 10:04pm Jun 21
I'm neither interested in breeding or passion, but rather in purity and honesty in labeling, and the absence of unlabeled additives, adulterants, or sugaring."

Yup, pressing the edge just bit, but only to add balance to a Facebook page that is used quite commercially by the usual suspects. A little balance, eh? But these managed to be left alone.

The same wasn't true when I spotted a posted picture of Burrell's "Rum Experience" etched glass which seemed a lift from Luis Ayala, whose book "The Rum Experience" and "Rum University" predated Burrell's use by quite some years. "Rum" in script, "Experience" in smaller block capital letter. Name and logo seemed so similar that a comment was in order. In that comment I properly noted the similarities between the name, logo and even colors and posed the notion that "Some might even consider this a lift". Decide for yourself...

. . . . . . ....(Luis Ayala, 2001)

. . . . . . ....(Burrell, 2013)


I was promptly "liberated" in Preacher style from this "closed" group, apparently open only to cooperative butt buddies.


So what did I learn?

To shut up? Nope. To be less than honest? Never. To be more careful? Perhaps, but really? Hmmm. No, the big lesson is that the GRC is heavily populated with the usual suspects who use this page mostly promoting and selling rum in "..it's all good" fashion. Even in my short time there a number of promoters became rather edgy and personal with moi, but I was scrupulous in avoiding any flaming responses. Successfully, I might add.

But it does indicate a few things. The Badassitor - and Big Burr as well - as promoters of two rather large "fests" remain important to the marketing of rum and thus retain a bit of clout on who can speak and what they can say. Apparently the "Rum Experience" use of uh, the "Rum Experience" was just too uncomfortable for a certain, thin-skinned party. But as so well said by Groucho Marx:

Groucho:

"I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member"

*******
Rat Fink or Not Dept: Rum Experience University exposed X2:
http://rumproject.com/rumforum//viewtop ... experience

[The Fat Rum Pirate]

It's his group so like this forum he can pick and choose who contributes.

He probably could have been a bit thicker skinned with regard The Rum University but I didn't see the post.

To be honest a few Rum Promoters and Ambassadors have been quite condescending and rude at times.

Considering the line of business they are in I find some of their comments pretty surprising and I certainly wouldn't want them working for me.

The Global Rum Club and the Ministry of Rum Facebook pages are a good place to see some of Richard Seale's opinions.

[JaRiMi]

Global Rum Club was an open FB page until this week I think - At least I got a notification that it has been changed into a closed (members only) FB page.

Thank goodness I do not work with rum or even with whisky, my money comes from elsewhere and the drinks are just a hobby. I'd hate to not be able to be honest in my opinions...

[Capn Jimbo]

"He probably could have been a bit thicker skinned with regard The Rum University but I didn't see the post."

Pirate, the full report of Badassitor's activities in lifting directly from the much earlier work is linked above in the OP and also here:
Rat Fink or Not Dept: Rum Experience University exposed X2:
http://rumproject.com/rumforum//viewtop ... experience

Luis Ayala was/is a true pioneer, preceeding even the bombastic Preacher. His book "The Rum Experience" (pictured above) was published and copyrighted in 2001. Ayala was SO far ahead of his time that he even established his "Rum University" at that time, which was an extremely competent series of "lessons", available online, and even offering a free certificate upon successful completion. His university later became the basis for his many seminars, etc. for both the public and the trade.


And then came the Badassitor of Rum...

The Badassittor was very much a latecomer, and established his "Rum Experience" well over a decade later. Now while any of us can put ourselves out as consultants - fair game - The BA went way beyond the pale by not only what to me seems a direct lift of (a) the name, (b) the logo, and (c) the colors - not to mention the concept itself, that most would find blatant, misleading and bordering on unethical.

Mind you, this is from a promoter that thinks so much of himself that he has to do such a direct borrow is not the least bit becoming. Legal perhaps (Ayala has admitted he failed to gain an international trademark), but ethical? Moral? Brave? Creative? Honest? You decide. Some would consider such a borrow rather limberger cheesy, eh?

This is the same Badassitor who showed his ignorance of just what defines the "Caribbean" in the first place, such ignorance detailed at the Project main site:
http://www.rumproject.com/caribbean.html


Liberation Redux...

Now as for what got me "liberated" was a posted picture of his etched "Rum Experience" glass - apparently for sale and/or promotion, that used his borrowed logo. Infuriating to say the least. My liberating post simply noted the similarity to that of Luis Ayala. The truth: the "Rum Experience" and University was established - and still exists - by Luis Ayala, who deserves full and honest credit.

"Borrows" by others are less than becoming, as a real competitor would have the cajones and creativity to create and establish his own image. To do otherwise seems cheap at the best.

[JaRiMi]

Mr. Luis Ayala himself did some "funnies" when making his book, I did not know what to say when I saw it to be honest. Also it broke to pieces the very first time I opened it, and the coming months, the ink printed smudged really badly through the pages, making it virtually unreadable sadly. I am not certain he ever got my payment, tried to send it to him in mail.

I know the book was a self-published product, but still. I sent him weblinks to materials where rumrunning and other historical topics were discussed on various websites, some even US government source pages. I was astonished to see these copied word to word, even photos (poor resolution, as also other images in the book obviously copied from internet) - and no single reference to where the material came from, no links, no mention. Copyright infringement at its worst, but I guess due to book's limited availability, and no involvement from publishers, it got away.

Didn't know what to think really, it was shocking to me. Most of the book was copies of various printed marketing material from distilleries and importers. The takeout from it was very little in my humble opinion, but the direct copied page after page from internet was pretty poor show I felt - sorry. Gigantic kudos for effort, and his passion on rum, but...

Not suggesting two wrongs make a right - The logo, is it a copied idea? Definitely, I feel. Look at it. Was the original logo copyrighted? No idea.

[Capn Jimbo]

J....


Yes, I'm aware of all that, but these are issues all publishers and webmasters for that matter must be concerned. And the use of such material is not clear as there are a number of factors:

1. Is the material copyrighted in the country where it is being reproduced?

2. Does the material carry the appropriate mark?

3. Has the material been in the public domain?

4. Is the material - by itself - being used for profit.

For example, let's say you copyright a photo, and I then reproduce and sell it for profit. A clear violation. But last, but not least there is the matter of the Fair Use Doctrine, which allows use of copyrighted material in a larger context. For example, a webmaster quotes or copies a passage or picture, but only as an illustration or lead in to a larger subject or exposition. This is fair.

It's not so easy. OTOH, the Badassitor's near direct rip of the concept, name, logo, colors and same service - for profit - would very likely be a violation in the US. It was so blatant that when I received an early email promoting the BA's fest, I actually thought it was Luis' event, it was that misleading to me. But even if we take the most negative view, two wrongs does not a right make, nicht wahr?

"Examples of fair use include commentary, search engines, criticism, parody, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. It provides for the legal, unlicensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor balancing test."

*******
Re the Fair Use Doctrine:
http://library.noctrl.edu/citing_source ... ight.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

[Dai]

The Global Rum Club and the Ministry of Rum Facebook pages are a good place to see some of Richard Seale's opinions.

Facebook count me out I don't do facebook, bad enough google spying on me. Much harder to get away from google than it is facebook.