Two in the Chest Dept: Tate wins a battle, but the war?

[bearmark]

Well, Mark, I would say that's an insult to everyone else who helped build this company and its products. Jared was every bit as instrumental to the distillery's success as Chip. He worked on every single blend ever released, he managed the production for years, he built out the distillery when it was just an old welding shop, he collaborated on product development, he ran the stills, etc.

I didn't mean to imply that the rest of Balcones employees were worthless... that's just pure marketing spin on your part. In any case, I'm sorry to have "ruffled your feathers." It should be obvious to anyone that this isn't the same company anymore and the past several months have proven that. I can't think of any producer that wouldn't be severely impacted by the loss of their chief/master distiller. To ignore that is just plain foolish. I was fairly cautious in my initial embrace of Balcones (as with all producers) and turned into a huge fan. Balcones has entered into a new era without it's founder, Chip, who was such a huge part of their success (I don't know of anyone outside of Balcones that would disagree with this statement), and now have to prove that their up to the task. If you believe that they are (of course you would as the Brand Ambassador), then I guess it'll be a great relationship again. That would be great news; however, you could stand to be a bit less sensitive to such a normal reaction frpm a consumer and fellow whiskey aficionado. If you expect such a high degree of trust, then a bit of patience might be wise. I'm willing to give the new Balcones (I'll call it, Balcones... un-Chipped), including Jared, a more than fair shot... just like before. How 'bout a bit of graciousness to one of its loyal supporters and customers... especially one that's willing to give them some objective consideration?

Whether or not the whisky is exactly the same is fairly irrelevant. It's still fucking delicious Yes, Jared and I have different taste than Chip, but we have very well developed palates and we know our products inside and out. What I can guarantee you is that the quality is just as good or even better, judging by the response we've gotten from folks around Texas. So far, the only person who has complained about the quality of the whisky today was Chip, which anyone could have predicted he would do.

Wow! It looks like Balcones never needed Chip anyway and his new venture is doomed to fail. Now that's news! Don't worry, I'm just returning the favor of overreacting to your statement. In any case, I applaud your confidence, but you'd do well to cease the condemnation of Chip... it won't help you or Balcones in the end to air the "dirty laundry." PE Investors and Rockafellow have won and that's over. Now, let's find out if Balcones and it's consumers have benefited as well.

In any case, I recently acquired a bottle of Brimstone 14-6 and I'm planning to try RCR and the French Oak Single Malt soon. I guess we'll see how that goes. Also, I'm finally shipping out a sample of Texas Rum to one of our experts. I'm sure you'll be interested in the results of that venture as well.

PS - I don't know what the Cap'n will do with his time without all of this to ramble on about... and, as a designated "Tate-r-tot," I mean this with all sincerity. It's almost like dealing with Sawyer on LOST... the best you could hope for is a new nickname.

[Capn Jimbo]

Oh my...


It's deja vu all over again, lol!

In the spirit of full disclosure readers should note that our good man Bear considers Mr. Tate a friend, and after this post perhaps his new brand ambassador.

In this regard we could all learn from Ambassador Winston, whose calm demeanor, professionalism and unflappability throughout an extremely trying period should be a lesson. A man whose feathers never seemed to quiver, much less ruffle. It should also be noted that the Bearmeister earlier promoted Winston to moi as a talented man whose views were valuable and worthwhile, and whose registration should be approved. But apparently that was then.

It's notable too that even among Tate's rabid cult followers over at the STR8boyz joint, most so far have now chosen to display the good sense and respect to speak well of both Tate and Balcones. Throughout this matter it was my goal to add balance to what was a one-sided debate, and to call them as I saw them. Tate's ego and grandiosity made that rather easy. His fate was entirely in his own hands.

You may carry on...

[bearmark]

Maybe I should speak for myself, Cap'n, so I can perhaps deprive you of the backhanded insults.

I actually know Winston better than Chip and I respect and like them both. I vouched for Winston then and still do. I vouch for Chip's whiskey (no offense intended, Winston), but I don't know what kind of person he is. Winston would be better qualified to answer that, although that friendship appears to have waned, so impressions may be different now.

[Capn Jimbo]

No worries mate...


No insults intended, simply full disclosure. You have been a valued and well written member here, and your contributions appreciated. This whole thread was based not on the man's experimental whisky - which got checkered reviews from those who count - but more on the amazing man-bites-still story.

As a huge backer of independent distillers - particularly those using pot stills, watching and reporting the story of this driven young man self-destructing was anything but pleasant. Unlike many who fail so spectacularly, he has been given what may be a second chance to show what he can do on his own - without the help and support of his former long time friend and co-distiller/blender Jared.

Still, that's a long way off, but Tate would be well advised to stop what many interpret as pouting and as continuing insults of Balcones, and as he likes to say "...to get back to just making whisky". As for Balcones, it would be a huge error to underestimate the quiet guy who made and blended much of their whisky during Tate's frequent and prolonged absences, and whose full story has not yet been fully told.

It needs to be.

[bearmark]

As for Balcones, it would be a huge error to underestimate the quiet guy who made and blended much of their whisky during Tate's frequent and prolonged absences, and whose full story has not yet been fully told.

It needs to be.

I've been thinking the same thing. Jared has been unknown until this mess, unless you happened to have visited with him at the distillery. He's definitely under a huge spotlight now. While I'm worried about the loss of Chip, I'm hopeful that there's an unsung hero that's been in the shadows.

Let me also say that Winston has been (and I'm confident that he'll continue to be) the best brand ambassador I've met from any producer. There's no doubt that Balcones has gained much recognition since he joined and I don't believe that was an accident. He's a true whiskey lover and will freely tell you what non-Balcones stuff he likes as well. In my lamenting over the future of Texas whiskey (Balcones being the clear icon here), I had no intention of writing him or Jared off.

I now have 2 producers (one pending) to keep an eye on. If either or both are successful, then Texas and Balcones fans have been well served. By the way, Chip will have to prove out his new offerings with me as well. My limited resources can't be thrown at whiskey that isn't great.

In closing, Winston and I are now true friends… on Facebook. There's clearly no Chip on his shoulder (pun intended) as he reached out to me with the request. We'll have to grab that beer we've been talking about some time.

Now let's drink to the future and see what happens. Tonight, I'll raise a glass of Balcones' Texas Single Malt to that end and to Winston.

Cheers!

[Capn Jimbo]

"I now have 2 producers (one pending) to keep an eye on. If either or both are successful, then Texas and Balcones fans have been well served."

Indeed! Tate may get to run his own show again and Jared/Balcones get to expose a much larger market to independent spirits. I was also very interested in this comment by Winston:

"We've been using 60-gallon extra yard aged casks for over 3 years now. Several of our products (Single Malt, True Blue, Rumble Cask Reserve) are married into these large barrels after aging in the 5-gallon casks first, and we're also filling some big barrels right off the still.

As far as extra aging... well we'd have to re-engineer the whisky to accomplish that. The environment and the types of casks we use are very instrumental in allowing us to age quicker, to the point that a few months can mean the difference between awesome and sawdust. It's really up to Jared if we're ever going to take a stab at that. We're perfectly happy with making good whisky in less time

All that being said, we've been slowly transitioning to using more big barrels over time. When the new distillery goes online and we're making 10x as much spirit and there's no humanly possible way we can be evaluating >500 5-gal barrel samples a week for a blend. That's just ludicrous! "

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/s ... 18562efed2

Cooperage and aging has always been of great interest to most of us, particularly as it applies to the Texas environment (which I suppose is more like the Caribbean than to Scotland). The notion of 5 gallon mini's - closely watched - with marrying in 60 gallon barrels is interesting.

[Winston]

I didn't mean to imply that the rest of Balcones employees were worthless... that's just pure marketing spin on your part. In any case, I'm sorry to have "ruffled your feathers." It should be obvious to anyone that this isn't the same company anymore and the past several months have proven that. I can't think of any producer that wouldn't be severely impacted by the loss of their chief/master distiller. To ignore that is just plain foolish. I was fairly cautious in my initial embrace of Balcones (as with all producers) and turned into a huge fan. Balcones has entered into a new era without it's founder, Chip, who was such a huge part of their success (I don't know of anyone outside of Balcones that would disagree with this statement), and now have to prove that their up to the task. If you believe that they are (of course you would as the Brand Ambassador), then I guess it'll be a great relationship again. That would be great news; however, you could stand to be a bit less sensitive to such a normal reaction frpm a consumer and fellow whiskey aficionado. If you expect such a high degree of trust, then a bit of patience might be wise. I'm willing to give the new Balcones (I'll call it, Balcones... un-Chipped), including Jared, a more than fair shot... just like before. How 'bout a bit of graciousness to one of its loyal supporters and customers... especially one that's willing to give them some objective consideration?

Whether or not the whisky is exactly the same is fairly irrelevant. It's still fucking delicious Yes, Jared and I have different taste than Chip, but we have very well developed palates and we know our products inside and out. What I can guarantee you is that the quality is just as good or even better, judging by the response we've gotten from folks around Texas. So far, the only person who has complained about the quality of the whisky today was Chip, which anyone could have predicted he would do.

Wow! It looks like Balcones never needed Chip anyway and his new venture is doomed to fail. Now that's news! Don't worry, I'm just returning the favor of overreacting to your statement. In any case, I applaud your confidence, but you'd do well to cease the condemnation of Chip... it won't help you or Balcones in the end to air the "dirty laundry." PE Investors and Rockafellow have won and that's over. Now, let's find out if Balcones and it's consumers have benefited as well.

In any case, I recently acquired a bottle of Brimstone 14-6 and I'm planning to try RCR and the French Oak Single Malt soon. I guess we'll see how that goes. Also, I'm finally shipping out a sample of Texas Rum to one of our experts. I'm sure you'll be interested in the results of that venture as well.

PS - I don't know what the Cap'n will do with his time without all of this to ramble on about... and, as a designated "Tate-r-tot," I mean this with all sincerity. It's almost like dealing with Sawyer on LOST... the best you could hope for is a new nickname.

Mark, let me preface my response with that I value your opinion not simply as a customer (I hate that word!) but as an acquaintance and fellow spirits geek. So, it is very much so not my intention to offend or alienate you as a future customer or friend. As you can tell, I am very passionate about my job, and especially about my coworkers, who deserve far more credit than they've ever received. Of course it's fair if you want to digest that as "marketing spin," after all, I am in a marketing position. However I hope you, as well as others, can appreciate that I am far more genuine than that. I think most people that have met me can corroborate that fact. Regardless, my concern is to help set the record straight, even if it may not seem sincere right now given the circumstances.

Naturally, I don't benefit from condemnation of Chip, and I was not trying to imply any bad blood toward him. Just stating a fact, and my opinion of that fact. Whatever he goes on to do will be great, I'm sure, and I hope he can look back on Balcones and be proud of where we take it in the future.

Anyway, I am thrilled that you are willing to give us a chance, if not for the simple fact that it would be cool to hang out again We are definitely confident in our abilities to produce whiskies of excellent quality, but we'll let you be the judge. Do let me know how you enjoy the new Brimstone, that batch (14-6) was the winner at the Whiskies of the World competition

[Winston]

Let me also say that Winston has been (and I'm confident that he'll continue to be) the best brand ambassador I've met from any producer.

Wow! I am really flattered, Mark. Probably one of the finest compliments I have ever received

Thanks for believing in me. You are right to point out that my love for whisky transcends beyond Balcones, which I had always hoped would help make me a better ambassador for our brand. I've been called a lot of things (lying, backstabbing marketing guy comes to mind) but hearing this from you fills my heart with joy. It's great to be recognized for my passion in this industry, and not just as a talking head with a script!

I write my own script

[Blade Rummer]

Speaking of scripts, this entire thread could be made into a movie Betrayal, court cases, friendship lost and friendship found. Only thing missing is a car chase.

[Winston]

Speaking of scripts, this entire thread could be made into a movie Betrayal, court cases, friendship lost and friendship found. Only thing missing is a car chase.

I hope I will be played by Norman Reedus

[Capn Jimbo]

ROFL...


...only at the Project, and our unique brand of informed idiocy. I will resist choosing the actors to play the parties to this madness; however I believe the car chase must include a 1964 Split Window, VW Bus.


. . . . . . .

[bearmark]

Speaking of scripts, this entire thread could be made into a movie Betrayal, court cases, friendship lost and friendship found. Only thing missing is a car chase.

I hope I will be played by Norman Reedus

I want to be played by Robert De Niro. Perhaps Chip could be played by Zach Galifianakis and the Cap'n by Alec Baldwin.

[Winston]

Speaking of scripts, this entire thread could be made into a movie Betrayal, court cases, friendship lost and friendship found. Only thing missing is a car chase.

I hope I will be played by Norman Reedus

I want to be played by Robert De Niro. Perhaps Chip could be played by Zach Galifianakis and the Cap'n by Alec Baldwin.

If Jesus Christ returns to earth, he can play Jared

[bearmark]

I hope I will be played by Norman Reedus

I want to be played by Robert De Niro. Perhaps Chip could be played by Zach Galifianakis and the Cap'n by Alec Baldwin.

If Jesus Christ returns to earth, he can play Jared

I guess that means Jared is played by Jim Caviezel. Also, my new choice for the Cap'n is Richard Dreyfus and a little voice keeps telling me that Chip has to be played by Chuck Norris.

[bearmark]