Black Tot: not the real British Navy Rum?

[mamajuana]

Note: the following posts were "split" from another thread, as Mama has raised a very interesting new subject...


I have heard rumors that the black tot is not Royal Navy rum. It was actually army issue rum purchased on open markets. They say it was stored in Germany during the cold war and returned 40 years later.

Refer to this blog post where a avid collector calls out the company producing the black tot. He receives and initial response from the company but then after he gets more technical, is left unanswered:

https://blog.thewhiskyexchange.com/2010 ... ing-notes/

With all the dishonesty in rum, is it not impossible to believe this army issue rum filled in similar flagons then stored for 40 years could be passed off as the real deal?

[AK9]

thanks mamajuana.

The comments on the blog are very interesting to read. They never replied on his 2nd post.

Personally I dont like anything that is NAS and premium in price.
I would suspect that anything belonging to the British army/navy would have alot of paperwork related to it..

Irrelevant but would prefer this from 3 bottles of Black Tot £600..



http://www.thedrinkshop.com/products/nl ... odid=13569

[Capn Jimbo]

I think it fair use to quote this exchange:

"Brian Cook {ex RN Victualling CPO}.
7 August 2010

Having served in the Royal Navy for many years and drawn a daily Tot of 95.5 Proof, rum, why is Black Tot rum not at regulation issue strength? Once in the sealed flagons the rum would not change.

Surely the value of original R.N. rum lay in retaining it in the original stone flagons? In your earlier press release, you said that the rum was being reblended. If this is the case, how can Black Tot rum be the original Royal Navy blend?

In The Times report, David Broom, stated that the blend of Navy Rum was achieved by accident. This is not correct, the blend was the formula preferred by the men. {See Hansard, 1933}.

In the late 1990’s the Ministry of Defence brought back a consignment of Army rum, which had been stored in Germany, for 40 years, during the Cold War.

Unlike Navy rum, rum for the Army was purchased by tender on the open market and kept in separate vats in the Admiralty victualling yards, where it was filled into identical 1 gallon flagons.

Do you have documentation to support your claim that this is original Royal Navy rum and not Army rum returned from Germany, in the late 1990’s?

I await your response with interest."

And "Tim F's" (the bottler?) reply...

"Tim F 13 August 2010:

Hi Brian,

Many thanks for your comment. Let me address your points individually:

1. The stoneware flagons and corks are slightly porous and the flagons were not filled to the brim, so only losing 0.2% abv from regulation strength over the course of forty years is pretty amazing in my opinion.

2. The ‘blend’ of Black Tot is an amalgamation of flagons of Navy rum that had already been blended in soleras. If you open ten bottles of Macallan 10yo and pour them into a bath, it’s still a bath of Macallan 10yo. If you pour a load of orange juice cartons together it’s still orange juice, and if you vat together a large quantity of flagons of original navy rum, it’s still original navy rum. Incidentally the rums from each flagon tasted different to each other, even the flagons from the same source, due to the passage of time and the interaction of the rum with the air in the flagons. They would be similar but not the same, but they would both be original navy rum.

Black Tot is an amalgamation of original navy Rum from three different soleras. All of those soleras were original Navy Rum, yet the rums themselves were slightly different, so in that sense there were three originals. Black Tot is a blend of all three.

With regard to keeping the rum in the flagons, those flagons were on sale for many years from their previous owners, but because of their size the prices were in the thousands and so they were almost unsellable as they were out of reach of all but the most wealthy.

3. I have spoken to Dave Broom about the Times article and he has kindly provided the following full explanation: “What I recall saying to the journalist was that the original blend was achieved by chance – ie it was due to a set of circumstances that various rums arrived in London and were then blended by Man to make the Naval style. He didn’t start from a position of saying he would like specific rums from the Caribbean, he used what was available. Chance or simply fortuitous timing.

I went on to say that once the formula was arrived at then blending as quality control started. In the book [that accompanies Black Tot – Ed.] I clearly state that the influence of the men’s tastes was taken into consideration – and specify that this resulted in the low percentage of higher ester Jamaican rums being used and the aversion to rums from Natal and Australia.”

4. Yes we have documentation."

To which "Brian" responds for the last time:

"Brian Cook {ex RN Victualling CPO}.
15 August 2010

As an avid collector of Royal Navy memorabilia, especially rum items, I acquired 4 ‘Imperial British Navy Rum’ flagons. Did you purchase similar flagons?

If so, 2 of my flagons are packed in a wooden case, marked ‘BIELEFELD’. Bielefeld was a British Royal Army Service Corps stores depot, in Germany, which closed in the 1990’s. Army rum stored in Germany, was shipped back to the UK, for disposal in the 1990’s.

Whilst I believe that you are acting in the good faith, I also believe that you may be mistaken, in believing that you purchased the last stocks of Royal Navy rum.

As to David Brooms comments that the Admiralty rum blend was created by accident, may I refer you to a statement by the First Lord of the Admiralty, at Westminster, on 2/3/1933. “Navy Rum, as issued to the Fleet, was blended in such proportions as long expeience had shown to produce the flavour preferred by the men.”

David Broom is correct when he says that Natal and Australian rums were not popular, but they were only used during WW2, when sustaining supplies was difficult.

You say that the price of your rum flagons had become almost unsellable “as they were out of the reach of all but the most wealthy.” Surely the cost of decanting, reblending and rebottling, only served to increase the pro rsta costs?"

My observations:

A rather old exchange, but yes, very interesting. The conversation wanders away after it, as it appears both parties had their say. "Brian" - who owns some rare flagons - both before and after "Tim's" responsed, pointed out the possibility the "Black Tot" may actually be an Army issue. "Tim" in his single response made clear they "have documentation" which apparently settled the matter in his view.

Any further discussion would be repetitive, so I don't agree anyone was running away from the discussion. Short of posting a copy or pics of the actual documention, we will never know. I can think of one clever way to add to the confusion and that would be an answer to this question:

When was the "Black Tot" first sold?

If before "the late 1990's", that would absolutely settle the matter in favor of Tot. If not, the POSSIBLE disagreement continues, but I tend to favor Tot. Brian himself exposes his own contraction in stating that he owns "4 flagons of Imperial Navy rum" (apparently so marked), but that two of those were shipped in a case that were shipped in a case marked "Bielefeld", an Army depot. It is not beyond possibility that these flagons are Navy issue, but also being shipped from an Army Depot. During the war supply officers were famous for being able to get special stuff in great demand, especially for officers...

Capisce? I don't, lol...

[Beukeboom]

Wow! With all that controversy it makes me [almost] want to buy a bottle. Gotta win a lottery first.

[The Black Tot]

I now own two such flagons, from the Hannover stocks.

These are my retirement bottles, so I'm not opening them for tasting, but I have sampled a taste of similar flagons from the seller.

I haven't heard of "army rum", but the samples I've had have been similar to Pusser's, although with a bit greater depth and complexity, which leads me to believe they are original navy formula.