This post may make up your mind...
It did for me. If you're like me you may have some of the reactions I did. The artisan pipes are often close to mint, and sell for way, way, way too much for the likes of cheapo me. Now there are some "name" pipes (like Stanwell or Savanelli) that might have sold originally for $200 to $300, but which can be had "reconditioned", and that don't look too bad - for perhaps around $100 or so. Then there are the lesser names, "name" seconds and the like that you might find for say $50 -$90.
This is where a little research by searching on Ebay for that model, then checking off the "completed" box to see what they sold for in the past. Another GREAT program for finding and evaluating is "Collector's Weekly":
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/tobacci ... s/auctions
But I digress. There is another class of really quite nasty looking, truly well used and rather old briars.
Nasty, nasty...
No real damage, good briar, at very, very low prices, but these look like they've had ten thousand smokes or so. Think $10 or $15. The mouthpiece may be decent, but the stems are oxidized and dull, the bowl is thick with old, rough and nasty looking cake, and the finish is dull and coated with years of dirty hands.
These are not being sold by the big sellers, but are simply Grandpa's once great old pipe that someone just wants rid of, or that is not worth a big seller's time and trouble. Good smokers, but really now, would you put your mouth on one of these? Not me.
These are the kind of pipes that I might say "Hey, if only that pipe was a lot cleaner and less used, and looked pretty, I'd buy it!". But if it were that clean, the price would then be too high. A dilemma, si?
A solution?
Yes, You just have to see this Danish smoker's very well done video on how he finds and easily brings back what prove to be jewels in the rough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-NNPc-twdQ
He does it using simple, ordinary and inexpensive tools and supplies that will also be useful in keeping your current pipes pristine. His method is also simple and well within our means. Watch this video and you may just change your mind about how to obtain and add some truly fine smoking and terrific looking briars to your collection at one tenth what you'd ordinarily have to pay.
Not to mention the pride of doing it yourself. It convinced me...
Crappy Estate Pipes: a turnoff? Or an opportunity?
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
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My finds...
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
The Falcon was purchased for $12 (plus shipping), the Fiamatta 310KS for around $45 (ibid), Italian briar. Both had minimal cake buildup. The Falcon will need the usual cleaning with alcohol, the salt treatment and polishing.
The Fiamatta is a truly special find. Made by Savinelli for their very special Giubileo Oro line ($800) which features spectacular vertical flame grains ("Fiamatta"/"flame"). The Giubileo pipes represent the very finest briar, less than 0.5% qualify. The "Fiamatta" is a Giubileo Oro second; even as such it's grain and finish is exceptional, as you can see - I could find no issues short of a couple tiny scratches from handling. As a Giubileo second and as best as I can determine, this pipe sold new for around $200. I'd guess this was a second because the grain was not as uniformly vertical as the Giubileo's; however the quality of briar is the same.
Thus I am going to take extra special care and time with the Fiamatta which I believe will turn out to be spectacular looking and good smoking Savinelli, especially for a cheapskate like me..
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
The Falcon was purchased for $12 (plus shipping), the Fiamatta 310KS for around $45 (ibid), Italian briar. Both had minimal cake buildup. The Falcon will need the usual cleaning with alcohol, the salt treatment and polishing.
The Fiamatta is a truly special find. Made by Savinelli for their very special Giubileo Oro line ($800) which features spectacular vertical flame grains ("Fiamatta"/"flame"). The Giubileo pipes represent the very finest briar, less than 0.5% qualify. The "Fiamatta" is a Giubileo Oro second; even as such it's grain and finish is exceptional, as you can see - I could find no issues short of a couple tiny scratches from handling. As a Giubileo second and as best as I can determine, this pipe sold new for around $200. I'd guess this was a second because the grain was not as uniformly vertical as the Giubileo's; however the quality of briar is the same.
Thus I am going to take extra special care and time with the Fiamatta which I believe will turn out to be spectacular looking and good smoking Savinelli, especially for a cheapskate like me..
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
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The "eyes" have it...
...maybe. I am aware that many of the Falcon's are reported to have this thin plastic "seal", while quite a few owners report their older Falcons do not and that its absence has little effect. Some claimed theirs did not, but then upon looking closer see what appears to be worn and carbonized seal. A turkey shoot.
I believe mine is one of the latter (worn, hard to see), but the proof will be in the smoking. If it leaks I know one Falcon owner who found a nice, thin diameter automotive O-ring that does the job, just like those owners who use a piece of a pipe cleaner in the bottom to replace the Falcon brand "filters".
Ibid, roughly "the same", in this case meaning "plus shipping" as with the Falcon.
...maybe. I am aware that many of the Falcon's are reported to have this thin plastic "seal", while quite a few owners report their older Falcons do not and that its absence has little effect. Some claimed theirs did not, but then upon looking closer see what appears to be worn and carbonized seal. A turkey shoot.
I believe mine is one of the latter (worn, hard to see), but the proof will be in the smoking. If it leaks I know one Falcon owner who found a nice, thin diameter automotive O-ring that does the job, just like those owners who use a piece of a pipe cleaner in the bottom to replace the Falcon brand "filters".
Ibid, roughly "the same", in this case meaning "plus shipping" as with the Falcon.
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
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No big deal about the gasket I was just curious. You'll end up buying a couple of extra bowls anyway. I don't use dry rings or pipe cleaners I find them both to only do half the job before it clogs up anyway. I smoke sans accoutrements and just unscrew the bowl and dab some paper towl in to soak up any fluid that has built up to the point of annoyance
in goes your eye out
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
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Another example of PAS...
(Pipe Acquisition Syndrome). I believe that - at least for me - the notion of tongue burn is maybe the one thing that could keep most noobs like me from really getting into this, closely followed by understanding and finding a blend you like. It's not like you can just read a review and voila! An enjoyable smoke.
More about burn itself later (I found yet another interesting factoid), but it doesn't take long before you hear about - first, here, about the Falcon and its alleged cooling properties, and later, about the famous Peterson System Pipes.
The Peterson System
Basicly this "system" apparently became on of the early patent pipes and has been produced for many decades. I won't waste your time with a pic, but these are Holmsian looking full bent, chin hanger pipes. Somewhere behind the bowl's chamber and near the heel of the pipe they've drilled a moisture chamber just off the draught/air hole. Apparently the theory is that the smoke will expand, and the resultant moisture will accumulate in this chamber - and you allegedly get a cool, dry smoke less likely to burn.
. . . . . . .
At the bit/mouthpiece they have what's called a P-tip which directs the smoke upward away from the tongue.
Here's the problem:
These system pipes and Petersons in general, are considered very collectible and even the estate pipes are rather dear. Unless you are very lucky expect to pay say $70 to $100 on eBay, and that's for a used one. Didn't happen.
Frankly, eBay has become super-competitive and there are enough monkeys out there that the prices have become rather ridiculous.
Here's the answer:
I read somewhere that the best values - for refurbished and cleaned estates - are from a few well-known individuals like Marty Pulver of Pulver's Prior Briar. For a mere $35 (plus shipping) I jumped on this hard to find Savinelli:
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
These sell new for perhaps $120, so this was a good deal. Mr. Pulver is fanatical about doing a good job of cleaning, reaming and polishing these pipes for good draw, nice looks, clean inside and out. In this case Savinelli went to school on Peterson and allegedly improved on the concept. The mouthpiece also exits upward but uses a slot rather than a draw-inhibiting hole. It also has triangular balsa filters, which can be replaced by a triangular insert for those who don't like filters. This system gets great reviews.
We'll see. In the meanwhile I'd like to give this gentleman a free plug for his terrific service. He spent considerable phone time with me discussing my purchase of the Fiamatta (above) well before I did any business with him. Accessible and knowledgable, good estate pipes in all price ranges. I got very lucky with this one, listed as a "special".
Burn on...
*******
http://www.pulversbriar.com/index.html
(Pipe Acquisition Syndrome). I believe that - at least for me - the notion of tongue burn is maybe the one thing that could keep most noobs like me from really getting into this, closely followed by understanding and finding a blend you like. It's not like you can just read a review and voila! An enjoyable smoke.
More about burn itself later (I found yet another interesting factoid), but it doesn't take long before you hear about - first, here, about the Falcon and its alleged cooling properties, and later, about the famous Peterson System Pipes.
The Peterson System
Basicly this "system" apparently became on of the early patent pipes and has been produced for many decades. I won't waste your time with a pic, but these are Holmsian looking full bent, chin hanger pipes. Somewhere behind the bowl's chamber and near the heel of the pipe they've drilled a moisture chamber just off the draught/air hole. Apparently the theory is that the smoke will expand, and the resultant moisture will accumulate in this chamber - and you allegedly get a cool, dry smoke less likely to burn.
. . . . . . .
At the bit/mouthpiece they have what's called a P-tip which directs the smoke upward away from the tongue.
Here's the problem:
These system pipes and Petersons in general, are considered very collectible and even the estate pipes are rather dear. Unless you are very lucky expect to pay say $70 to $100 on eBay, and that's for a used one. Didn't happen.
Frankly, eBay has become super-competitive and there are enough monkeys out there that the prices have become rather ridiculous.
Here's the answer:
I read somewhere that the best values - for refurbished and cleaned estates - are from a few well-known individuals like Marty Pulver of Pulver's Prior Briar. For a mere $35 (plus shipping) I jumped on this hard to find Savinelli:
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
These sell new for perhaps $120, so this was a good deal. Mr. Pulver is fanatical about doing a good job of cleaning, reaming and polishing these pipes for good draw, nice looks, clean inside and out. In this case Savinelli went to school on Peterson and allegedly improved on the concept. The mouthpiece also exits upward but uses a slot rather than a draw-inhibiting hole. It also has triangular balsa filters, which can be replaced by a triangular insert for those who don't like filters. This system gets great reviews.
We'll see. In the meanwhile I'd like to give this gentleman a free plug for his terrific service. He spent considerable phone time with me discussing my purchase of the Fiamatta (above) well before I did any business with him. Accessible and knowledgable, good estate pipes in all price ranges. I got very lucky with this one, listed as a "special".
Burn on...
*******
http://www.pulversbriar.com/index.html
A nice looking pipe with military mount. I have 3 'estate' pipes here at home that I was gifted. I have stripped two and started the stain on one. I have added my own rustication because the old puffer had so many fills in it it looked like a giraffes spots. The only tool I've used is a dremel. The sanding I've done by hand. They are looking ok and it is good fun to puff away on some nice tobacco whilst fiddling away with the pipe.....um that didn't come out right...stuff it, soldier on.
I also took the dremel to my meer which although carved from quality block had some rushed engineering. I have fixed that and the meer is my daily smoker now.
When you add your findings on tongue bite could you please add them to the tongue bite thread?
I also took the dremel to my meer which although carved from quality block had some rushed engineering. I have fixed that and the meer is my daily smoker now.
When you add your findings on tongue bite could you please add them to the tongue bite thread?
in goes your eye out
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Would love to see your handiwork on these estates, some pics if convenient? In the meanwhile, I finished my first attempts at clean up and restoral of the Fiammata and the Falcon.
Stems were soaked in an Oxyclean/water bath, then rubbed out with a Magic Eraser, and polished with the 4 highest grades of Micro Mesh. At first I just bought one of those 4-grad fingernail buffers from a beauty store and they actually looked pretty good (not glassy, but lustrous). But I repeated the polish with the MM, then finished with a couple of drill driven buffs using White Diamond polish and finishing with a baby's touch of carnauba.
To be fair, I didn't achieve the like-new glassy finish of a truly great pipe, but instead got a nice reflective, super-smooth glowing finish that I actually like better. There's something about a semi-gloss. Here they are:
Before:
. . . . . . .
Final polish:
. . . . . . .
Turns out that repeated light buff polishing with very light coats of carnauba make it shinier and shinier. I may do a few more, it's easy.
*******
Rare Capn's Note: d..., since my last pics were so fackin bad, I deleted the last two posts (yours and mine), no worries. Look forward to pics of your final rustification.
Stems were soaked in an Oxyclean/water bath, then rubbed out with a Magic Eraser, and polished with the 4 highest grades of Micro Mesh. At first I just bought one of those 4-grad fingernail buffers from a beauty store and they actually looked pretty good (not glassy, but lustrous). But I repeated the polish with the MM, then finished with a couple of drill driven buffs using White Diamond polish and finishing with a baby's touch of carnauba.
To be fair, I didn't achieve the like-new glassy finish of a truly great pipe, but instead got a nice reflective, super-smooth glowing finish that I actually like better. There's something about a semi-gloss. Here they are:
Before:
. . . . . . .
Final polish:
. . . . . . .
Turns out that repeated light buff polishing with very light coats of carnauba make it shinier and shinier. I may do a few more, it's easy.
*******
Rare Capn's Note: d..., since my last pics were so fackin bad, I deleted the last two posts (yours and mine), no worries. Look forward to pics of your final rustification.
Here's my work in progress.
This is the one I started on. I still have to finish the staining, seal and polish it. The stain didn't come out as I wanted so may re-sand and re-stain yet. This pipe was egg shaped and rusticated witrh a nail that looked like scratches and red stained. I flattened it and added new rustication and added the rings (which I hurried and made a dogs breakfast out of) A good learning curve pipe restoration.
This next one was basically the shape you see I just flatted the rim a bit. I added spot rustication because of fills in the wood but will be staining this one, when ready, a more natural stain.
Here is what the basic colour was of all the pipes and what the stems look like.
This pipe I'm saving until last.
This is the one I started on. I still have to finish the staining, seal and polish it. The stain didn't come out as I wanted so may re-sand and re-stain yet. This pipe was egg shaped and rusticated witrh a nail that looked like scratches and red stained. I flattened it and added new rustication and added the rings (which I hurried and made a dogs breakfast out of) A good learning curve pipe restoration.
This next one was basically the shape you see I just flatted the rim a bit. I added spot rustication because of fills in the wood but will be staining this one, when ready, a more natural stain.
Here is what the basic colour was of all the pipes and what the stems look like.
This pipe I'm saving until last.
in goes your eye out
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Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Thanks for a wonderful show and tell...
It's not easy to post more extended pieces, and I thank you for your time and trouble. Enquiring minds want to know:
1. How did you come by the pipes you found, what did you pay (USD), and why did you choose them? Were you looking for a particular maker, or style?
2. How did you go about rusticating them?
I personally admire anyone who takes on such a project; there's a personal beauty and satisfaction from doing it yourself. Fun stuff, and thanks again for a great post.
*******
BTW downloaded the following Kindle book "Old Briar" by a very experienced old timer who loves to buy and restore old estate pipes (pre-1950), says the old briar (30 years old even then) is the best. Lots of history, techniques of restoration (all using common and simple methods/tools), etc.
FWIW you don't need a Kindle to read them, but can do so with your PC using their "Cloud Reader"
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00557L6J2
It's not easy to post more extended pieces, and I thank you for your time and trouble. Enquiring minds want to know:
1. How did you come by the pipes you found, what did you pay (USD), and why did you choose them? Were you looking for a particular maker, or style?
2. How did you go about rusticating them?
I personally admire anyone who takes on such a project; there's a personal beauty and satisfaction from doing it yourself. Fun stuff, and thanks again for a great post.
*******
BTW downloaded the following Kindle book "Old Briar" by a very experienced old timer who loves to buy and restore old estate pipes (pre-1950), says the old briar (30 years old even then) is the best. Lots of history, techniques of restoration (all using common and simple methods/tools), etc.
FWIW you don't need a Kindle to read them, but can do so with your PC using their "Cloud Reader"
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00557L6J2
Hi Jimbo,
I was given the pipes by my wife's grandfather, he was an officer in rocket artillery in the German army.
They are not expensive pipes the fills and flaws are testament to that. He didn't really look after them either.
I rusticated with a Dremel alternating between a grinding bit and a bit for scalloping metal. I would do it slightly differently next time.
I do have a Kindle and will download that book. Thanks.
I was given the pipes by my wife's grandfather, he was an officer in rocket artillery in the German army.
They are not expensive pipes the fills and flaws are testament to that. He didn't really look after them either.
I rusticated with a Dremel alternating between a grinding bit and a bit for scalloping metal. I would do it slightly differently next time.
I do have a Kindle and will download that book. Thanks.
in goes your eye out
-
Capn Jimbo
- Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:53 pm
- Location: Paradise: Fort Lauderdale of course...
- Contact:
Another find...
To be fair, I'm quite happy with my Missouri Meerschaum cobs - the Pride and Eaton to be specific. They average less than $4 each, the former being on just the smaller side of medium (call it a Group 3) and the Eaton closer to Group 2, smaller. I'm not into long, drawn out smokes and these are perfect. I've learned to sip them, and as da'Rum has advised, really a consistently fine smoking pipe.
Still, I was interested in finding some real briar pipes, but being the cheapskate I am went to eBay and the estates. A truly exquisite Fiammata from Savinelli (call it $200 new) for $40, a very early Falcon ($50 new) at $12 and a truly rustic and rare Savinelli Dry System (about $120) for $35. The first two caused me to buy some buff wheels, polish, micro-mesh pads and carnauba but the outcome was fun and worth the experience.
Only the last - the Sav Dry System was purchased from one of a small group of honest pipers that find, refurbish and resell estates that have been well cleaned and polished. Kudo's to Marty Pulver of Pulver's Prior Briars.
I thought I was done...
...but of course I wasn't. For some unexplainable reason I wanted to find a nice rustic Greek made or looking pipe - something a Greek fisherman, shepherd or olive grower would smoke with his Greek coffee - and/or - a Holmesian Calabash - real gourd, of course. The Greek pipe will happen - no hurry - but honestly, the Calabash/meerschaums are not inexpensive. Even uncleaned estates can easily sell for around $100.
But then this...
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
Sitting down? Thank Neptune I was - it was just $28 from yet another great source: the Viking Club. This is a pipe club that is large enough that the member often have pipes for sale, and they do so at truly fair and suprisingly low prices, this Calabash being Exhibit A - real gourd, inner meerschaum bowl.
Now to be fair there is a trivial defect. The clencher's tooth caused a tiny hole about 1/2 inch forward of the button/mouthpiece. It's position and size will have no effect to speak of; but for the anal retentive (I confess) a bit of carbon ash and a drop of super glue, and a good carnauba polish and it will disappear. Without this trivial hole this pipe would be worth at least $100 or a bit more (and will be when I'm done).
I'll post again when I've received and examined it, but the Club has a good reputation...
*******
http://www.pulversbriar.com/
http://www.vikingclubpipes.com/
To be fair, I'm quite happy with my Missouri Meerschaum cobs - the Pride and Eaton to be specific. They average less than $4 each, the former being on just the smaller side of medium (call it a Group 3) and the Eaton closer to Group 2, smaller. I'm not into long, drawn out smokes and these are perfect. I've learned to sip them, and as da'Rum has advised, really a consistently fine smoking pipe.
Still, I was interested in finding some real briar pipes, but being the cheapskate I am went to eBay and the estates. A truly exquisite Fiammata from Savinelli (call it $200 new) for $40, a very early Falcon ($50 new) at $12 and a truly rustic and rare Savinelli Dry System (about $120) for $35. The first two caused me to buy some buff wheels, polish, micro-mesh pads and carnauba but the outcome was fun and worth the experience.
Only the last - the Sav Dry System was purchased from one of a small group of honest pipers that find, refurbish and resell estates that have been well cleaned and polished. Kudo's to Marty Pulver of Pulver's Prior Briars.
I thought I was done...
...but of course I wasn't. For some unexplainable reason I wanted to find a nice rustic Greek made or looking pipe - something a Greek fisherman, shepherd or olive grower would smoke with his Greek coffee - and/or - a Holmesian Calabash - real gourd, of course. The Greek pipe will happen - no hurry - but honestly, the Calabash/meerschaums are not inexpensive. Even uncleaned estates can easily sell for around $100.
But then this...
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
Sitting down? Thank Neptune I was - it was just $28 from yet another great source: the Viking Club. This is a pipe club that is large enough that the member often have pipes for sale, and they do so at truly fair and suprisingly low prices, this Calabash being Exhibit A - real gourd, inner meerschaum bowl.
Now to be fair there is a trivial defect. The clencher's tooth caused a tiny hole about 1/2 inch forward of the button/mouthpiece. It's position and size will have no effect to speak of; but for the anal retentive (I confess) a bit of carbon ash and a drop of super glue, and a good carnauba polish and it will disappear. Without this trivial hole this pipe would be worth at least $100 or a bit more (and will be when I'm done).
I'll post again when I've received and examined it, but the Club has a good reputation...
*******
http://www.pulversbriar.com/
http://www.vikingclubpipes.com/
