Kevin Myers, RIP Redux

This category practically demanded by here again, gone again KM. Although I'm not ready to give Cachaça its own style, I am willing to accomodate. Chef, RIP: when you were good you were brilliant, but when you were bad, whew...
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Capn Jimbo
Rum Evangelisti and Compleat Idiot
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Kevin Myers, RIP Redux

Post by Capn Jimbo »

Kevin, RIP... (November, 2008)

With not a little regret, I'm sorry to announce that Kevin Myers - Poster Extrordinaire - has passed on from these pages. At a point Kevin took a bit of issue with my section entitled "Twiggie's Tie Dye Rum" - a section dedicated to those "rums as liqueurs" - rums which have gone over the top in adding especially sugar, but also other flavorings in an obvious attempt by the marketing department to capture new rum drinkers. Worse yet, none of these are honestly labeled as "flavored".

Rum for non-rum drinkers.

Kevin took issue with the name of the section and the concept, felt that I was being not only subjective but was acting in such a way as to pose a clear and present danger to new rum drinkers. I felt just the opposite.

Such is life.

Well the long and short of it was that this fascinating interchange arrived at the point where almost all debates of this type arrive. Namely, at a point of repetitiveness and what I chose to call a "meta-conversation" (a conversation no longer about the subject at hand, but turns to challenging one's opponent and the style of his or her presentation). It is at this point that things can only deteriorate and flame wars can all too easily ensue. However entertaining to the Romans in the crowd, this is not at all educational.

Now because I respected Kevin and very much and otherwise appreciated his many posts, I then decided to give a brief explanation, list all of the areas in which he and I agreed and...

Locked the thread. In turn, Kevin, uh, left. A real shame. His former posts were always well conceived. He asked for his own section - on Cachaca - and I gave it to him. But gone he is. But do know Kevin that none of us harbor any ill will, and you are welcome back anytime...

Such is life.


*********

Link to the Myers/Capn (or is it Capn/Myers) Exchange ...a fascinating read and Kevin's first locked thread. And:

The BTI uh, debate ...Kevin's second locked thread, and yet another example of his "interesting style".
.
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Fri May 24, 2013 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Capn Jimbo
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Chef Jekyll and Mr. Hyde... (May, 2013)



Kevin Myers (above) had the unique honor of not only being the first poster causing me to (politely) lock a thread, but was also the second. Still his posts were left untouched and he was left on the roster, free to post. He left in a huff, circa 2008, never to be seen again until a couple months ago. In five years, no other threads needed locking.

Kevin Myers Redux, self-identified "chef", now has the really, really unique honor of now also being the last and next to last poster causing a lockdown. And again his posts were left up, and he was retained. This time although I decided to leave him on the roster I did two new things:


First...

First I posted a very long reply to his last post on “Flavorings: Artificial vs "Natural"” that pulled no punches whatever, and which included this summary:
“1. Bearmark once expressed a wet dream for Kevin to return and engage in the World Championship of Polemics. He was suitably rewarded.

2. Later, Kevin was intrigued enough by our long thread on the massive subsidies, and actually did try to post but his old account had been archived, so he requested new access.

3. Even though our earlier experience showed a certain tendency for stubborn repetition and argumentativeness, a new account was created and approved for him as “Kevin Myers Redux”.

4. Upon his return Kevin Redux quickly posted in a recent additives thread in such a way as to to offend two respected posters, a bad start which immediately did not bode well.

So I closed the thread and privately asked him to say what he had to say – once – and then go on. In the interest of peace and preserving his reputation he was also privately advised that certain issues are well settled here (think unlabeled additives), that certain members were true and competent experts whose postings were opportunities to learn, and that bursting back onto the forum with both guns blazing was premature and suggested payback of old scores. I suggested that it might be better to make some positive and friendly contributions in perhaps “Cachaca”, and make a few friends. I even seeded a few cachaca questions to help him out.

He acknowledged my concerns, seemed to understand, and to agree. I hoped for the best.

5. In the last thread , we are back to the old Kevin, not the hoped for new, improved and promised version. The polemics in his last two or three posts included arguing by exception, ignoring valid points, quoting out of context, playing gotcha, obfuscation, mimicking with questionable motive, and exhibiting a pornographic ability for repetitive thrusting so amazing that it’d make a mating bull beaver jealous.

6. Such exchanges completely fuck up our long held intentions: to do a good job of competent research, to educate and to keep it simple. Readers who come here to learn leave frustrated and confused when they are faced with what on the surface appear to be two conflicting and equally competent posts. Few if any are going to drag ass through unending paragraphs to carefully dissect and really compare them. And they surely won’t participate. Who would?

7. Trust me it doesn’t have to be this way. At the Count’s place, JaRiMi and I once engaged in a number of very long and rousing dialogues in the past, but which were conducted competently. No gotchas, no argument by exceptions. No seeking to win or lose, but to mutually discover the truth. It was invigorating, enjoyable and educational. Considerable and mutual respect resulted and we are all blessed for JaRiMi’s continued presence here now.

8. Kevin may have it in him to be a worthy participant here, but frankly it doesn’t look good. I am not willing to accept general unrest and confusion in exchange for a few good posts. Chef Jekyll or Mr. Hyde? Both have been demonstrated, but only one is acceptable.


Now as to what to do? If Hyde wants to be argumentative, fine but not here. Years ago the first and almost the only poster that caused me to lock a thread was Kevin, who is now the last and next to last. I honestly can think of no others. Without going into detail I have made it possible for Chef Jekyll to continue sharing in a more reasonable fashion.

Make no mistake: new, opposing and clarifying information is always welcomed and there’s plenty of it here. Competent and respectful opinions and alternative or expanding views are welcomed. Ad hominem argumentativeness and gotcha polemics are not. This is not about winning and losing, it’s about a group of talented posters sharing together in the goals of the pursuit of pure rum and the truth. To expose the cheaters and to spread the word. And to educate others as to the reality of rogue rum. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

I assure you I will do my best to maintain these long held goals.”

Second...

I then sent Kevin Redux this friendly note…
Moi: “Hey Kev, nice posts in the Cachaca section, ‘grats! Way to go Chef Jekyll.

But as for Mr. Hyde’s bullshit post under “Flavors, natural and artificial, not so much. Since this is Hyde’s third go of it – first offending two very competent members, and now me, the widely acknowledged Master of the Universe, aka The Compleat Idiot of Rum, lol... I should probably call you a taxi and show you the door. But I’m not the CIR for nothing, so guess what? I’m leaving you be, and even leaving your stinky posts alone. Why not? They’re exceptional and educational in an odd way. An example of “How Not to Make Friends and Influence People” (you’ll have to look that one up under Carnegie, D.).

But I did answer, tat for tit, vanilla for vanillan, beaver for ass. However, in the interest of peace on earth and good will among rum lovers, here’s the new deal. You get to stay and your new password is “castoreum”.

Naw, just kidding, it’s really (xxxxxxxxxxxx) – 9 characters and 3 numbers. Until you guess it, just mail me your posts with the subject, section and intended thread, new or old. Spew away. If the post serves to educate and is written respectfully, up it goes. If it’s mean spirited, argumentative, maddeningly repetitive or polemical, not. If it’s questionable, I may suggest you edit yourself (pun intended) and may make some constructive suggestions. Simple, fair, effective.

Think of the advantages. You get to post reasonably and avoid further ass reamings. It’s like the two for one dinner specials on Mondays. Cool. And hey, if that doesn’t work out for ya, I tried. I really did.

Chow, er ciao my friend… and as for you – go edit yourself!

Best regards,
Capn Jimbo”
A rather lighthearted, firm but fair offer, si? Si! Of couuuurse!! The chef stewed for a day (pun) then I got an email in a nice bold Arial 12 point which proved to be – at his demand - his official last appearance here at The Project...


Kevin's Arial 12 point Response and Final Demands...
” I received your message yesterday and read your post. I was just going to walk away without comment but since you insist…

You're a really funny guy -- in an ironic sort of way. Do you get the feeling of déjà vu when you read the words "banned because I didn't agree with the prevailing mythology"? Are you familiar with the phrase / concept "can dish it out but can't take it"?

I understand my matter-of-fact approach rubs some people the wrong way but the few who are offended by an innocently expressed opinion are insecure -- insecure of their "facts", insecure of their opinions, insecure of their palates and experience. Not my problem.


"There is no debate"

True, there is no debate because you're always right. And if anyone disagrees, you lock the thread and kick the bastard out. All hail the mighty and powerful "captain". If you had constrained yesterday's post to "If all you say is true, Kevin, then how do you explain all the stinky flavored rums on the market?" then I'd have been 90% with you.

I was particularly amused by your claim you're the only person capable of correctly interpreting FDA regulations and how you caution anyone against refuting your "facts". I've been working under these same convoluted rules daily for almost 30 years and when I'm wrong (not often but I'm human so it has happened) the local inspectors are only too happy to set me straight. But I'm sure you know better. You certainly know enough to stop one paragraph short of citing the applicable rule (just like a real lawyer, perhaps you missed your calling).


"Honest, good solid evidence and widespread consensus"

Ah, yes, the Al Gore method. Consensus is why your ramblings are full of cutting remarks about others' opinions, belittling nicknames and undefended / undefendable accusations? Solid evidence is why you refuse to accept processes that have been a part of rum-making since its inception?

In the case of the post in question here, you took a simple (maybe too simple but certainly polite) 9-sentence response and turned it into an illustrated "cherry picking, false equivalencies, straw beavers, parsing out of context, gotcha's, exceptions, unrelated points and/or lily pad jumping", edited 13-times and counting. All I did was respond. Mirror, meet the Capn.

You might also want to note I use the term "agree"; you seem to insist on "admit". Hmm… Capn, meet mirror.

Amusing, also, are your comments about a successful and innovative master distiller's "garage" stills and how you're so sure his products are full of "nasty sulfur compounds" that you need not try them before knocking the entire operation. Repeatedly. Notice I tried to gently guide the conversation but you insisted you just had to be right, that your theory trumped reality. Seekers of truth change their theories in response to new knowledge; they don't attempt to pound a round reality into a square theory.


If error is corrected whenever it is recognized as such, the path of error is the path of truth.
-- Hans Reichenback



"Hold my own"

I'm sure you do. But we're talking truth. Truth stands up to question and that's not allowed here.

So carry on with your little self-reassuring group in search of "true" and "pure" rum (which is actually just another marketing device you've naively bought into) -- but brace yourself. You're really going to freak when you learn, as the rum industry just has, how gamma radiation affects distilled spirits, reducing years of aging to mere seconds.


"Chef Jekyll and Mr. Hyde"

Sorry, but it only appears that way because "Mr. Hyde" isn't disagreeing with something you previously posted and isn't a threat to your superiority. Since every word and thought is from the same poisoned well (me, apparently) the only safe and honest thing to do is post this or delete them all. I realize that although I don't believe my last post went over any line, this one is a bit blunt even by my standards. So don't forget to put an asterisk by my name…

*Banned because he didn't agree with the prevailing mythology.
. . . . . (Emphasis added)

My advice: two aspirin, plenty of fluids and to check his radiation dosimeter card STAT. Oh, and no more cooking with that old microwave. But in the end (pun intended)...


Kevin gets his way...

After some thought (I actually composed a red penciled reply in school marmish fashion) but then realizing that submitting to my propensity for trying to “save” posters like Kevin or the Wolfboy was simply foolish and would not be appreciated by anyone - I decided to grant all three of his demands.

1. To publish his “interesting” email.
2. To delete his posts (sadly those of the brilliant Chef Jekyll and gladly, those of Mr. Hyde)
3. To asterisk his name “Banned at his own request”

Oh and one extra beaver bonus…

4. To give him the last word at uh, at long last. Persistance pays, Kev!



Flat Ass Bottom Line…

There isn’t one. Kevin’s “interesting” rebuttal speaks for itself. The Rum Project remains dedicated to pure and oak aged rum, and to simple, clear, honest and competent information designed to educate, not obfuscate.

Goodbye and good... you decide.
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