Rum Review: El Dorado 15 Year Special Reserve Rum

Subtle, soft and medium bodied rums originating in Guyana and that define the fourth major standard style. To our sweethearts and wives, may they never meet!

How do you rate El Dorado 15 Year Special Reserve (5 is best)?

5
5
45%
4
6
55%
3
0
No votes
2
0
No votes
1
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 11

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Capn Jimbo
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

A caveat...


Taste away but be sure to keep in mind that a test is a moment in time, and reflects the couple of bottles provided by the company on that day, for that test, for that country. There is no guarantee - and there shouldn't be - that the "formula" for hidden sugar didn't change later, or that is was ever changed for the sweet-toothed Ameican market.

All distilllers are aware that in comparison to Europeans, the manipulated Americans love their pussified, heavily altered and sweetened rums.

To be fair, 45g of sugar is a ton of it, and can hardly be explained away on the basis that sugar somehow enhances a great product, rather than the reverse.

I'm done with the ED's, until the numbers are 0 or at the worst, <=3g.
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Dai
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Re: Still a Great Rum

Post by Dai »

NCyankee wrote:
bearmark wrote:I revisited this rum last night and, despite all of the recent discussion about the addition of sugar by El Dorado, I still consider this a great rum. It isn't as sweet as I remember (probably all of the recent discussion playing games with my mind), but it's still every bit as complex and enjoyable. There's so much flavor to spend time deciphering and every sip leaves me with a reaction of... "this is really good stuff!" It's just not the same syrupy mess as something like Dos Maderas PX or Zacapa 23.
I agree 100%, and even though the 12 yr is sweeter, the flavor is still robust enough that it is nowhere near obscured by the sweetness, as I find in rums such as Diplomatico and Ron Fortuna 8.

I am interested in seeing what Zacapa 23 tastes like now that they have cut the sugar by half. I suspect it will taste more like the Zacapa XO which IMO was a much better rum. A friend picked my up a bottle in Atlanta for me, but I haven't gotten it from him yet.
I had some of the 15 on Sunday. Yes it is a nice rum even though it is full of sugar. Thoroughly enjoyed it, but sadly it does not represent value for money to me anymore.
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Post by bearmark »

Capn Jimbo wrote:A caveat...
To be fair, 45g of sugar is a ton of it, and can hardly be explained away on the basis that sugar somehow enhances a great product, rather than the reverse.

I'm done with the ED's, until the numbers are 0 or at the worst, <=3g.
By the way, my comment about ED15 "benefitting from added sugar" was "tongue in cheek." I don't condone the practice at all and I found myself questioning the numbers based on the taste. I'm completely with you on the truth-in-labeling campaign and will definitely reward the honest representation of the craft through pure artisan offerings. My reason for the post was more to encourage everyone to use their tastebuds and not just rely on the numbers (as you've been doing). After tasting this rum (bottle purchased from new stock in 2012), I'm shocked that it could have so much added sugar. So much so that I'm tempted to cry foul, but I'm still awaiting more results. In the meantime, I have no plans on boycotting the wonderful ED15 unless my next bottle turns out to be a completely different experience... then, it may be over. :wink:
Mark Hébert
Rum References: Flor de Caña 18 (Demeraran), The Scarlet Ibis (Trinidadian), R.L. Seale 10 (Barbadian), Appleton Extra (Jamaican), Ron Abuelo 12 (Cuban), Barbancourt 5-Star (Agricole)
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Post by sleepy »

Rum = pirate beverage = no rules! Screw the current purity hunt - if you like it drink it! For myself, ED has never been attractive - too sweet, therefore, I vote with my purse. Mine: Flor, Seale's/etc., barbacourt, Pussers, Goslings for mixing, Appleton extra, Havana Club 7 (when I travel).




*******
Capn's Log: Anyone who follows my advice is destined for a life of pain, suffering and abuse (which can be fun by the way). And if I knew for sure that the trends were toward honesty and purity, I personally would be far less bothered. But when one realizes that a dollar spent with the cheaters is only accelerating the demise of the ever fewer quality rums, that makes rums like the ED15 far less appealing.

Sadly, we are at the point where the good guyz and galz need our business desperately. I believe we (however many that is) owe that to them...
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Post by bearmark »

sleepy wrote:Rum = pirate beverage = no rules! Screw the current purity hunt - if you like it drink it! For myself, ED has never been attractive - too sweet, therefore, I vote with my purse. Mine: Flor, Seale's/etc., barbacourt, Pussers, Goslings for mixing, Appleton extra, Havana Club 7 (when I travel).
I'm not really on that page, but I don't see ED as a complete sellout yet. My sampling doesn't seem any sweeter than Pussers, for example. I also agree with your list above, except I haven't had HC7 yet. I do trust my tastebuds, but I also prefer to support the craftsmen as opposed to a dishonest sellout because I trust them to improve their product rather than degrade it.
Capn Jimbo wrote: *******
Capn's Log: Anyone who follows my advice is destined for a life of pain, suffering and abuse (which can be fun by the way). And if I knew for sure that the trends were toward honesty and purity, I personally would be far less bothered. But when one realizes that a dollar spent with the cheaters is only accelerating the demise of the ever fewer quality rums, that makes rums like the ED15 far less appealing.

Sadly, we are at the point where the good guyz and galz need our business desperately. I believe we (however many that is) owe that to them...
I mostly agree with you, especially about the pain and suffering! :P ED15 is still a craft quality product, IMHO, although apparently altered after the fact... totally unnecessary from my perspective. The added sugar is not producing those complex flavors that I'm detecting. If anything, it's serving to suppress some of them and I would definitely prefer that they give me the unaltered product. Having said that, I still can't throw them in with the likes of Bacardi, who despite their lack of added sugar to the levels that we're referring to here, do not produce a pure, craft product and have definitely sold out to the marketing guys. At $32-35, I still consider ED15 to be a good buy, but that could totally change if the next bottle is a syrupy mess like the numbers above would suggest.

The case with Matusalem is similar. They produce a craft quality product, but they didn't disclose what they put in it and didn't call it a flavored rum. They were discovered and I know what it is, but I like their flavored rum and the price that it's available for (about $25 for MGR15 and $30 for MGR18).

As far as pure products, I'm still looking forward to a bottle of Mount Gay 1703 (per your recommendation), but it appears that I'd better be quick about it. :o My only hesitation is the $80 price tag. :shock: Another one that I'm looking forward to is the Balcones Rum that I got at the end of last year. I'm expecting a near whiskey type experience with that one. I know that my next bottle of rum is going to be a Seale's 10... I've missed that one as I haven't had it since last summer. Another taste of that one may change my thinking... we'll see.
Mark Hébert
Rum References: Flor de Caña 18 (Demeraran), The Scarlet Ibis (Trinidadian), R.L. Seale 10 (Barbadian), Appleton Extra (Jamaican), Ron Abuelo 12 (Cuban), Barbancourt 5-Star (Agricole)
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Post by NCyankee »

I tasted the ED 12 and 15 side by side today, and I have to say although I found the 12 yr sweeter, I would hardly call it "much much sweeter" as someone stated earlier. At most "noticeably" if not "somewhat".

If I tasted the Diplomatico Reserva and the ED 12 side by side, and you told me one had 17 g/l of sugar and one had 45, I would think you were pulling my leg if you told me the ED 12 was the more sweetened.
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My Tasting Notes

Post by bearmark »

I finally got around to formally tasting ED15 and I have to say that I still love this stuff. Now that I've polished off this bottle and a bottle of ED8, I'm set to open a bottle of ED12.
Mark Hébert
Rum References: Flor de Caña 18 (Demeraran), The Scarlet Ibis (Trinidadian), R.L. Seale 10 (Barbadian), Appleton Extra (Jamaican), Ron Abuelo 12 (Cuban), Barbancourt 5-Star (Agricole)
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Post by Guevara88 »

Nice Review of ED15 bearmark! I thought a lot about the whole "additives"-topic and came to the conclusion that the first step has to be a simple law forcing producers to list all ingredients used to deliver the final product. Whether true craftmanship was employed to produce said product is a totally different matter. To definitely ban all additives from rum seems quite a challenge since rum production is placed in many different countries and policy-makers at home probably don't see the regulation of imported rum as a main issue. Then again the European Union (for my concerns) might just be the right institution to bring order to this mess (they have a reputation of regulating stuff to the death).
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Always nice to see Che...


As a matter of history there's no doubt that the Project and our valued posters have spoken often and loudly about the issue. To be fair, it should be noted that I'm not aware of any one who suggested that there should be no additives, but rather no unlabelled additives.

OTOH, bourbon and scotch whisky have been quite clear: the SWA is clear in limiting coloring to minor amounts of E150a only (and not the Preacher's carcinogenic E150d). Most single malts use no coloring anyway and no additives or flavorings, period. Bourbon goes the extra milla and say no additives, no coloring, period.

So Che is right en el dinero here: it's fair, complete and honest labeling. Although discussed many times this means any and all additives, colorings, flavorings et al. It means the youngest rum in the bottle (although expressing all ages by percentage would be ideal). His suggestion of a law would work, particularly if that law were passed by either the EU or even better, the US - either one and the other is likely to quickly follow. Of course the lobbying would be tremendous and sadly, perhaps effective.

But I must say, politically we are at a delicate point. When some of our old mainstays start to fall - ED, MG and RM - we are put into a precarious position. And make no bones about it - RM and ED especially, are seriously altered (45g in an ED; sugar, prunes and vanilla in RM). So when we hedge by publicly stating "Well, I still like it a lot", and continue to buy them that may well be surrender.

In Spanish that'd be "una pendiente resbaladiza"; in English, "a slippery slope". The "I still like it comments" are in part an admission that we don't remember what the real ED tastes like, in part that we can't obtain or won't buy the ever fewer real products, and in the last part - that I still like it in comparison to really cheap and dishonest stuff. In truth this is simply the latest reincarnation of "it's all good" to "it isn't all good, but there's a few that haven't been completely ruined".

Una pendiente resbaladzia...
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by bearmark »

Capn Jimbo wrote:As a matter of history there's no doubt that the Project and our valued posters have spoken often and loudly about the issue. To be fair, it should be noted that I'm not aware of any one who suggested that there should be no additives, but rather no unlabelled additives.
Agreed. Call it a flavored, infused or spiced rum and it's all good. Even better, provide an actual ingredient list and it's even better. I would add that I'm not interested in artificial flavors either, so a rum infused with macerated prunes and vanilla would be acceptable and an artificially flavored rum would not... that's just my personal opinion... and I can almost always tell the difference. Even if I couldn't, I would not buy a product produced by someone who didn't care enough to do it right.
Capn Jimbo wrote:OTOH, bourbon and scotch whisky have been quite clear: the SWA is clear in limiting coloring to minor amounts of E150a only (and not the Preacher's carcinogenic E150d). Most single malts use no coloring anyway and no additives or flavorings, period. Bourbon goes the extra milla and say no additives, no coloring, period.
It may be allowed, but I definitely favor the un-chilfiltered and uncolored whiskies, because they have more flavor and I know the producer cares enough to do it this way. If they bottle at cask strength, then that's even better... allowing me to explore the full range of flavor. Adding coloring, especially a bad one, in order to call a product "gold" is just plain silly and I'll have nothing to do with that nonsense.
Capn Jimbo wrote:So Che is en el dinero here. It's fair, complete and honest labeling. Although discussed many times this means any and all additives, colorings, flavorings et al. It means the youngest rum in the bottle (although expressing all ages by percentage would be ideal). His suggestion of a law would work, particularly if that law were passed by either the EU or even better - either one and the other is likely to quickly follow. Of course the lobbying would be tremendous and sadly, perhaps effective.
Unfortunately, these industries are mostly self-regulated (e.g. the recent Diageo vs. Brown-Forman debacle in Tennessee), so the purists in the industry are going to have to take up that case if it's going to go anywhere. We as consumers just don't have the clout or the money to effect this change and that's truly sad. We're unfortunately at the whim of the politicians and producers, the line between which is often blurred. The craft distillers will have to band together in order to get any legislation passed for rum standards.
Capn Jimbo wrote:But I must say, politically we are at a delicate point. When some of our old mainstays start to fall - ED, MG and RM - we are put into a precarious position. And make no bones about it - RM and ED especially, are seriously altered (45g in an ED; sugar, prunes and vanilla in RM). So when we hedge by publicly stating "Well, I still like it a lot", and continue to buy them that may well be surrender.
What's really sad is when honest statements and assessments are characterized as something else. We can't maintain a position of truth in labeling, then start changing the truth of other's statements... that's just plain inconsistent. If what I've been drinking and enjoying and liking hasn't changed (i.e. it's the same bottle), why should I suddenly declare it to be any different just because I've learned something new about it? ED15 is a good, albeit sweetened, rum and I honestly enjoy it. Will I seek out purer examples of the spirit? Sure. Should I expose it for what it really is? Sure. Should I express my disappointment in the producer? Yes. Should I say that it's suddenly an unacceptable product? No.

Now, if the product has changed since I've last had it, then I can't comment on the change until I've tasted both expressions, particularly when the producer is coy about the change or that the change has even occurred.
Capn Jimbo wrote:In Spanish that'd be "una pendiente resbaladiza"; in English, "a slippery slope". The "I still like it comments" are in part an admission that we don't remember what the real ED tastes like, in part that we can't obtain or won't buy the ever fewer real products, and in the last part - that I still like it in comparison to really cheap and dishonest stuff. In truth this is simply the latest reincarnation of "it's all good" to "it isn't all good, but there's a few that haven't been completely ruined".
Actually, I do still like it and I've never tasted any ED product prior to 2012, so I don't remember what the old ones taste like. I'll bet that few project members/readers do. In your list of starter rums, you include Zacapa 23, which is heavily sweetened and obviously so. You offer it as an example of what others push and a good comparison exercise... and I agree. Given that ED15 is an historic example of Demerara rum, I would still recommend it, although pointing out that it's now sweetened. That brings me to a another point... how do we know that it hasn't always been sweetened and that this is representative of the type... like RM's practice of adding prunes and vanilla? As I've said, I can't say because I tasted my first good rum in 2012 and have nothing earlier to compare to.

Personally, I don't think that this is the way that we band together on the issue... by taking cheap shots at comments and characterizing them as heading down "a slippery slope." That's just divisive and unproductive.

My rum purchases are in large part guided by this forum and your recommendations. I would never have tried ED15 if it weren't for the Rum Project, and I'm really glad that I did. While I search out new reference Demerara examples, I'll continue to enjoy this one as a sweetened and flavorfully complex rum. My first purchase will probably FDC18, which I already like a lot anyway and learned about from the project.

But I won't stop there and I haven't in the past. I continue to seek out good, craft rum offerings in order to share with the project and help with the goal of establishing a set of true craftsman producing truly craft quality products. I have a bottle of Balcones Texas Rum that I can assure you is pure (although not Caribbean), unfiltered, unflavored and unaltered. I've talked with the distiller directly and I'm expecting great things from this one. Another recent discovery is South Bay Small Batch #18, which claims to be of the Cuban style and just recently became available here. I plan on trying this one out as well.

To state it again, I am committed to finding, tasting and sharing my opinions of good, quality, honestly produced and labeled rum. Captain Morgan, Bacardi, etc. are truly in a different class than Demerara Distillers and perhaps THEY are on a slippery slope, but I surely hope that WE are NOT. To demand truth in labeling requires us to be truthful about our assessments as well. Producers like Demerara Distillers and Ron Matusalem will have to realize that they've hurt themselves and can't expect the support of people like us anymore. We can still recommend their product as having a resemblance to the style that is all but lost, but they've been served notice that our intent is to replace them with a suitable alternative with a commitment to the historical (and even ethical) standards that we value, whether legislated or not. Believe me, they will suffer for it and that's unfortunate, since they could be a part of the solution rather than contribute to the problem.
Capn Jimbo wrote:Una pendiente resbaladzia...
So, let's talk about what we mean. Let's ask questions. Let's define our goals, some of which will be shared and some not. Let's focus on the shared goals and band together, not just for Caribbean rum, but for pure, craft spirits in general... especially rum.

PS - It looks like the question of whether rum is a "noble spirit" has unfortunately been answered in the negative. Even if it once was, it is now in peril because of big corporations who only care about short-term revenue and profit. That's sad!
Mark Hébert
Rum References: Flor de Caña 18 (Demeraran), The Scarlet Ibis (Trinidadian), R.L. Seale 10 (Barbadian), Appleton Extra (Jamaican), Ron Abuelo 12 (Cuban), Barbancourt 5-Star (Agricole)
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

A great and thoughtful post....


Allow me to express my appreciation for yet another thoughtful and educational post, this time by Bear. Of particular note:
Bear:

"What's really sad is when honest statements and assessments are characterized as something else. We can't maintain a position of truth in labeling, then start changing the truth of other's statements... that's just plain inconsistent. If what I've been drinking and enjoying and liking hasn't changed (i.e. it's the same bottle), why should I suddenly declare it to be any different just because I've learned something new about it? ED15 is a good, albeit sweetened, rum and I honestly enjoy it. Will I seek out purer examples of the spirit? Sure. Should I expose it for what it really is? Sure. Should I express my disappointment in the producer? Yes. Should I say that it's suddenly an unacceptable product? No.

Now, if the product has changed since I've last had it, then I can't comment on the change until I've tasted both expressions, particularly when the producer is coy about the change or that the change has even occurred. "
Of the three I mentioned (ED, MGXO and RM) I would say that all have changed, to wit:

1. RM: the basis of the brotherly lawsuit was that the production company changed from using macerated prunes and real vanilla to extracts. The marketing brother sued the producing brother for substantially changing the father's long used formula.

2. MGXO: I personally compared an MGXO I'd purchased and kept for perhaps 7 or 8 years to a current bottle. There was indeed a difference. Now that the production of MG is no longer controlled by the Ward's, it's game over.

3. ED: Bear, I beg you to trust JaRiMi on this one. He is a rum and spirits professional who is very, very well acquainted with the Demeraran rums and has followed them for many years. His palate is quite competent and he has frequently noted the changes in especially the ED's, among others. If memory serves he first noted the change a few years ago and posted here about it.

Even ED's master distiller Karl Canto has made clear that he fears for ED's future. That change has occurred is clear and it is no coincidence that there is a correlation with the huge subsidies to the mega's.


Flat Ass Bottom Line

I commend you for your ED15 review in highlighting the proven addition of sugar to the ED's. This is powerful. It might also be fair to note that even if you yourself had not the opportunity to note the sweetening of ED, that such sweetening has indeed occurred and not all that long ago. Or that the amount of sugar that's added is massive, one of the highest reported. And to be fair we must not assume that it's only sugar that's being added to make up for the likely loss of quality and complexity. The addition of unlabelled sugar almost predicts the rest. The fact that ED is now building a modern new industrial column still? Time to rest the case.

The point I would make is this: those who are poverty stricken may find that the bulk rum supplier DDI's El Dorados may be the best they can do, but if they really want to know what made them famous they'd be far better off saving up for one of the truly magnificent independently bottled products, compared to which the ED's are now just a modest imitation. If you liked these, then imagine what the real thing is/was like.

The question: is calling a cheap shot of rum a cheap shot - a cheap shot? Or is it the shot that's cheap? Do we continue to promote a neutered and altered version of a rum that's now dedicated to continued alteration in the impossible hope that the distiller will find God and defy his corporate masters? Or do we call a spade, a spade and direct readers to spend their hard earned dollars with those distillers who produce a real and pure product? For me I was once in the first camp, but time and experience have now moved me solidly into the latter (thanks da'rum). Our positions evolve and change in league with the changes within the industry.

I have 45 reasons to reluctantly stop recommending El Dorado, but the same 45 to beg all to save their money to buy from the remaining stock of independent offerings.
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Post by bearmark »

Capn Jimbo wrote:1. RM: the basis of the brotherly lawsuit was that the production company changed from using macerated prunes and real vanilla to extracts. The marketing brother sued the producing brother for substantially changing the father's long used formula.
I had forgotten that this is what the lawsuit was about and RM had indeed switched to extracts... my 18 doesn't taste artificially flavored to me, so I hope that it's least a true extract.
Capn Jimbo wrote:2. MGXO: I personally compared an MGXO I'd purchased and kept for perhaps 7 or 8 years to a current bottle. There was indeed a difference. Now that the production of MG is no longer controlled by the Ward's, it's game over.
I agree that this is disheartening, which is why I no longer plan on going back to MGXO, but instead plan on spending the exorbitant $80 price tag for a bottle of 1703 before it's too late... probably the last MG I buy.
Capn Jimbo wrote:3. ED: Bear, I beg you to trust JaRiMi on this one. He is a rum and spirits professional who is very, very well acquainted with the Demeraran rums and has followed them for many years. His palate is quite competent and he has frequently noted the changes in especially the ED's, among others. If memory serves he first noted the change a few years ago and posted here about it.
I definitely trust JaRiMi and just went back to read his previous comments yesterday after my post above. That's confirmation enough for me.
Capn Jimbo wrote:I commend you for your ED15 review in highlighting the proven addition of sugar to the ED's. This is powerful. It might also be fair to note that even if you yourself had not the opportunity to note the sweetening of ED, that such sweetening has indeed occurred and not all that long ago. Or that the amount of sugar that's added is massive, one of the highest reported. And to be fair we must not assume that it's only sugar that's being added to make up for the likely loss of quality and complexity. The addition of unlabelled sugar almost predicts the rest. The fact that ED is now building a modern new industrial column still? Time to rest the case.
That their addition of sugar is one of the highest in the industry is very telling... you're right about that; however, the speculation that they have added other things and that a new industrial column spells the end is just that... speculation. I prefer to stick with proven facts, so I'm going to update my blog post to note that their sugar levels are among the highest of sugar and that their direction seems to be indicative of a transition to mass producer rather than craft producer (I'm referring to methods and practice, rather than volume here).
Capn Jimbo wrote:The point I would make is this: those who are poverty stricken may find that the bulk rum supplier DDI's El Dorados may be the best they can do, but if they really want to know what made them famous they'd be far better off saving up for one of the truly magnificent independently bottled products, compared to which the ED's are now just a modest imitation. If you liked these, then imagine what the real thing is/was like.
Unfortunately, I can only imagine at this point unless FdC18 qualifies because these are the only 2 traditionally Demerara rums that I've tasted. FdC18 is about $11 more here at a minimum, so that's quite a jump from the ED15 bargain; however, if it's unaltered, then it's a better representation of the Demerara craft. For me, the difference between the two besides the sweetness is that FdC is more woody and has a less robust flavor. They both have a nice complexity that make them interesting to me, which means that, despite the added sugar, ED15 must still benefit from the blend of distillate from the different stills and from their aging process.
Capn Jimbo wrote:The question: is calling a cheap shot of rum a cheap shot - a cheap shot? Or is it the shot that's cheap? Do we continue to promote a neutered and altered version of a rum that's now dedicated to continued alteration in the impossible hope that the distiller will find God and defy his corporate masters? Or do we call a spade, a spade and direct readers to spend their hard earned dollars with those distillers who produce a real and pure product? For me I was once in the first camp, but time and experience have now moved me solidly into the latter (thanks da'rum). Our positions evolve and change in league with the changes within the industry.
I'd prefer to call a spade a spade and I have no expectation that DDL will improve from here. For me, while the current product is still on the shelves, ED15 still represents a good value and has some qualities that are worth exploring... I'm amazed that they still come through with 31 g/l of sugar, though. Now, I'm looking for an alternative Demerara reference with similar qualities and no sugar. I'm open to suggestions! For now, it's FdC18 as you've convinced me that, although I still enjoy ED15, it cannot be used for a reference for the style. It's now my favorite flavored rum!
Capn Jimbo wrote:I have 45 reasons to reluctantly stop recommending El Dorado, but the same 45 to beg all to save their money to buy from the remaining stock of independent offerings.
Actually, you have 31 reasons... save the 45 reasons for ED12. :wink: I'm really not looking forward to the bottle of ED12 that I have stashed away right now!
Mark Hébert
Rum References: Flor de Caña 18 (Demeraran), The Scarlet Ibis (Trinidadian), R.L. Seale 10 (Barbadian), Appleton Extra (Jamaican), Ron Abuelo 12 (Cuban), Barbancourt 5-Star (Agricole)
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Post by NCyankee »

One question I have for JaRiMi - when he says ED products have declined "in recent years" - when did this start? I got my first bottles back in 2010, when I first got into rum.
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