The OTC tobaccos seem often denigrated because...
...well, why really? Just like spirits the marketeering boyz go to great lengths to convince us that what they designate as "premium", "custom" or "super-premium" (they keep inventing new "classes") are worth the extra bucks. Think Sydney Frank and Grey Goose. Truth be told there are certainly exceptions and a goodly number of blenders who really do know their stuff. Time and consensus identifies this group.
But at the same time, the same large group who will post and endlessly discuss and review these legitimately good boutique blends will almost completely ignore most if not all of the great OTC classics. I speak of blends such as Prince Albert, Carter Hall, Half and Half, Captain Black et al.
These tobaccos are seen as smokes of desperation, when I left my tobacco at home, when I'm fishing or mowing the lawn kind of smokes.
Is this fair?
While there are indeed some real cheepo clunkers - often just repackaged cigarette tobaccos - there are more that are really quite nice. These are the classics often referred to as Old Timer's smokes - the ones that many of know and associate with Grandpa and maybe even Dad. These were (and remain) blends that were and are still smoked and very much enjoyed by untold thousands of pipe smokers.
The modern view would have you believe these poor old saps just didn't know any better, or simply didn't have access to the thousands of new boutique blends. I disagree. Our forefathers were not either stupid nor ignorant. They found and appreciated find whiskys, tobacco, beers and the like. Many of their preferences slowly became classics, popular because of widespread appreciation and acclaim, not the result of our lying mega-corporate marketing monkeys.
While it's true that many of us - moi included - may have purchased one of more of these simply out of convenience, curiosity or low cost, I think its fair to say that we may have been surprised at just how well done these classic are. To be fair, some of been changed and cheapened, but most of them have scrupulously been maintained.
I'm curious as to which of the classics you may have tried and liked...
OTC Tobaccos: just for fun? Or for real?
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Capn Jimbo
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OTC Tobaccos: just for fun? Or for real?
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
Two well known brands in the UK arte:
St Bruno which is quite good and holds it's own with many of the boutique blends. It's been round for years I can remember it from a kid as well as Condor which I have not tried yet. From what I know of Condor it's going to be an experience.
St Bruno which is quite good and holds it's own with many of the boutique blends. It's been round for years I can remember it from a kid as well as Condor which I have not tried yet. From what I know of Condor it's going to be an experience.
Last edited by Dai on Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Capn Jimbo
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Not so oddly enough...
...the scores reproduced from tobaccoreviews.com aren't far off, at least for me. Also note that I've excluded the full on aromatics as these have more to do with personal taste than quality of tobacco. As for moi, the first two I purchased were Carter Hall and Prince Albert. Of these I preferred the CH but to be fair, my pipe packing and improper (fast) smoking technique compromised any real evaluation.
Later when I finally developed the ability to allow tobacco to dry, to pack it in a quasi-Frank method, but most importantly to learn to allow it to go out and truly sip it was a new ball game. In this case:
It's mild enough yes, with a few infrequent puffs of mild interest, but won't please either the burley crowd or the aromatic folks. A loser for me.
And you? BTW, if I've left out an OTC that should be there, let moi know...
...the scores reproduced from tobaccoreviews.com aren't far off, at least for me. Also note that I've excluded the full on aromatics as these have more to do with personal taste than quality of tobacco. As for moi, the first two I purchased were Carter Hall and Prince Albert. Of these I preferred the CH but to be fair, my pipe packing and improper (fast) smoking technique compromised any real evaluation.
Later when I finally developed the ability to allow tobacco to dry, to pack it in a quasi-Frank method, but most importantly to learn to allow it to go out and truly sip it was a new ball game. In this case:
- 1. Prince Albert's lovely nutty burley was easy to smoke, and well, lovely.
2. My earlier preference for Carter Hall diminished (it's really a PA-lite with a bit of sweetish topping), and while I still found it pleasant, it became slightly less interesting to me.
3. Recently I found an inexpensive ($7.50) 1.5oz pouch of Half & Half, and had to buy this old time blend. Just one problem: it wasn't so old anymore. H&H was sold twice, and each time the blend has been widely reported to be changed and is now disliked by long time smokers who once loved it.
It's mild enough yes, with a few infrequent puffs of mild interest, but won't please either the burley crowd or the aromatic folks. A loser for me.
And you? BTW, if I've left out an OTC that should be there, let moi know...
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Capn Jimbo
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A word about burley...
Burley seems to known for two things: it's easy burning and has a lovely warm and toasted, nutty taste. It is truly classic, at least for old and long time pipe smokers. That's why all the classics listed above are burley-forward.
Even some of the famous old aromatics - Middleton's Cherry Blend being perhaps the best known - were also burley-based and nowhere near as goopy as many of today's versions. Yet there are a few modern light aromatics that have successfully attempted to recreate those olden days and blends.
Hearth & Home Signature Classic Burley Kake:
(3.1, $2.95 oz)): Burley (dark/light), bit of aged Virgina, light natural coffee/anise/cacao
H&H Kake by Russ Ouellette is one. Burley-forward and made with two types of burley, one dark and one light. A touch of sweet Virgina, and finished with what he calls natural infused cacao, chocolate, anise and rum. It's delivered in a small can in what's called a crumble cake, like a chunks of a pressed flake tobacco. Some call this a "sliced cake" tobacco. The term "particle board" works. The reviews are mostly 3's with a few 4's and very few bad reviews at all. Classic aroma and nicotine. It felt dry, but really wasn't, so I broke off a small chunk and loaded my Falcon, lightly pressed. After some relighting issues, I decided the chunk was just too tight, so used my tool to break it up some and retamped it. This helped, but next time I'll break it up first - this one does NOT burn as nicely as McB's Navy Flake (which fold and stuff works just fine).
Two things are worth mention: first, that one of the great advantages of the original old classics (above) is that they all are easy packing, ribbon based cuts that are pretty much "light and smoke" tobaccos. Compare to more expensive flakes or this "kake" which are much fussier, and let's face it - who wants to struggle with an inconsistent burn, too many relights and having to fiddle around? Not moi. Second is that any flavoring in the classics tend to be very modest, and are meant to allow the burley the starring role (unlike many modern, goopy, flavor forward blends).
Frankly, when I smoked the H&H Burley Kake I'd forgotten it does carry some gentle flavoring. The burley toastiness was there but the nuttiness was intermittent quite pleasant. It was only later that I began to realize something else - the flavoring, however mild and well done - was there in such a way as to pull even with the burley, with no one element predominant. Still, the history of this blend was Ouellette's goal of recreating the golden olden days of the OTC classics, and to a degree he has accomplished this.
My only recommendation: unlike the true oldies which were stuff, light and smoke you will have to make sure the Kake is properly prepared for smoking. Some folks recommended letting the can air out overnight or even much longer, and then stored. Others rub it out and let it dry a bit. Personally I'm not yet sure, as to me the chunks feel dry, but maybe that's just on the outside of them. On my next pipeful, I rubbed out the Kake - better, but some relighting was still necessary. It's clear that my batch will need both rubbing out AND a bit of drying.
Oh and btw: this one has been recommended as a great companion for your morning cuppa black coffee. Agreed.
Stay tuned...
Burley seems to known for two things: it's easy burning and has a lovely warm and toasted, nutty taste. It is truly classic, at least for old and long time pipe smokers. That's why all the classics listed above are burley-forward.
Even some of the famous old aromatics - Middleton's Cherry Blend being perhaps the best known - were also burley-based and nowhere near as goopy as many of today's versions. Yet there are a few modern light aromatics that have successfully attempted to recreate those olden days and blends.
Hearth & Home Signature Classic Burley Kake:
(3.1, $2.95 oz)): Burley (dark/light), bit of aged Virgina, light natural coffee/anise/cacao
H&H Kake by Russ Ouellette is one. Burley-forward and made with two types of burley, one dark and one light. A touch of sweet Virgina, and finished with what he calls natural infused cacao, chocolate, anise and rum. It's delivered in a small can in what's called a crumble cake, like a chunks of a pressed flake tobacco. Some call this a "sliced cake" tobacco. The term "particle board" works. The reviews are mostly 3's with a few 4's and very few bad reviews at all. Classic aroma and nicotine. It felt dry, but really wasn't, so I broke off a small chunk and loaded my Falcon, lightly pressed. After some relighting issues, I decided the chunk was just too tight, so used my tool to break it up some and retamped it. This helped, but next time I'll break it up first - this one does NOT burn as nicely as McB's Navy Flake (which fold and stuff works just fine).
Two things are worth mention: first, that one of the great advantages of the original old classics (above) is that they all are easy packing, ribbon based cuts that are pretty much "light and smoke" tobaccos. Compare to more expensive flakes or this "kake" which are much fussier, and let's face it - who wants to struggle with an inconsistent burn, too many relights and having to fiddle around? Not moi. Second is that any flavoring in the classics tend to be very modest, and are meant to allow the burley the starring role (unlike many modern, goopy, flavor forward blends).
Frankly, when I smoked the H&H Burley Kake I'd forgotten it does carry some gentle flavoring. The burley toastiness was there but the nuttiness was intermittent quite pleasant. It was only later that I began to realize something else - the flavoring, however mild and well done - was there in such a way as to pull even with the burley, with no one element predominant. Still, the history of this blend was Ouellette's goal of recreating the golden olden days of the OTC classics, and to a degree he has accomplished this.
My only recommendation: unlike the true oldies which were stuff, light and smoke you will have to make sure the Kake is properly prepared for smoking. Some folks recommended letting the can air out overnight or even much longer, and then stored. Others rub it out and let it dry a bit. Personally I'm not yet sure, as to me the chunks feel dry, but maybe that's just on the outside of them. On my next pipeful, I rubbed out the Kake - better, but some relighting was still necessary. It's clear that my batch will need both rubbing out AND a bit of drying.
Oh and btw: this one has been recommended as a great companion for your morning cuppa black coffee. Agreed.
Stay tuned...
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Capn Jimbo
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Some more quick takes...
1. Prince Albert: still my favorite for a no frills, nutty burley. Nice done, gravity pack, light tamp, light once and it goes and goes. What's not to like? If it matters there's a hint of cacao.
2. Half and Half and Sir Walter Raleigh: both burleys that seem topped or cased with perhaps an anise. Yes the burley is there, yes you get an occasional nice nutty whiff, but call these burley lites. The SWR is a gravity feed and light, and off you go.
3. Middleton's Cherry Blend: this is the one that will get you laid, and presents in the same manner as H&H and SWR, as burley lites. The only difference is an extremely pleasant room note.
4. Carter Hall: Along with Prince Albert one of the most recommended OTC's. Mild burley, bit of sweetness/fruitiness in the background, some even mix this one with PA. Easy load and burn, a favorite for many to break in pipes.
5. Granger: like Prince Albert, nutty burley forward, very nice.
6. Sutliff J-4 Mild Burley: very mild, and vanilla forward. The most aromatic of all of these.
7. H&H Classic Burley Kake: not really an OTC, but inexpensive enough, called Hearth & Home's answer to the OTC's. The most interesting with four different types of burley: Kentucky, Tennessee, light and dark, touch of Virginia. Bit of cacao and anise. If this was an OTC it would fit well with the Prince Albert. All said though, it's a pain to break up the broken cake, and more challenging to dry and prepare.
For now, the Prince Albert is hard to beat as a classic burley, closely followed by Granger. If you don't mind a light aromatic Carter Hall is a real winner for me, followed by Cherry Blend. Sir Walter and Half & Half are mild burley's with the lightest aro's, probably anise with a preference for the easy loading, great burning Sir Walter.
The Classic Burley Kake is not an OTC, but if you don't mind futzing around with it, may please you, but to me there's nothing like an easy load/easy burn like the Prince Albert.
My only real turn-off: the J-4 and its rather heavy vanilla, getting into Cavendish territory.
*******
This guy knows his OTC's and worth a click:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVADSFG ... E7481D89B6
1. Prince Albert: still my favorite for a no frills, nutty burley. Nice done, gravity pack, light tamp, light once and it goes and goes. What's not to like? If it matters there's a hint of cacao.
2. Half and Half and Sir Walter Raleigh: both burleys that seem topped or cased with perhaps an anise. Yes the burley is there, yes you get an occasional nice nutty whiff, but call these burley lites. The SWR is a gravity feed and light, and off you go.
3. Middleton's Cherry Blend: this is the one that will get you laid, and presents in the same manner as H&H and SWR, as burley lites. The only difference is an extremely pleasant room note.
4. Carter Hall: Along with Prince Albert one of the most recommended OTC's. Mild burley, bit of sweetness/fruitiness in the background, some even mix this one with PA. Easy load and burn, a favorite for many to break in pipes.
5. Granger: like Prince Albert, nutty burley forward, very nice.
6. Sutliff J-4 Mild Burley: very mild, and vanilla forward. The most aromatic of all of these.
7. H&H Classic Burley Kake: not really an OTC, but inexpensive enough, called Hearth & Home's answer to the OTC's. The most interesting with four different types of burley: Kentucky, Tennessee, light and dark, touch of Virginia. Bit of cacao and anise. If this was an OTC it would fit well with the Prince Albert. All said though, it's a pain to break up the broken cake, and more challenging to dry and prepare.
For now, the Prince Albert is hard to beat as a classic burley, closely followed by Granger. If you don't mind a light aromatic Carter Hall is a real winner for me, followed by Cherry Blend. Sir Walter and Half & Half are mild burley's with the lightest aro's, probably anise with a preference for the easy loading, great burning Sir Walter.
The Classic Burley Kake is not an OTC, but if you don't mind futzing around with it, may please you, but to me there's nothing like an easy load/easy burn like the Prince Albert.
My only real turn-off: the J-4 and its rather heavy vanilla, getting into Cavendish territory.
*******
This guy knows his OTC's and worth a click:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVADSFG ... E7481D89B6
I buy Mac Baren's HH old dark fired burley or Solani Aged Burley flake. Both aren't the bargains that the otc's above are but for a good burley smoke they are hard to beat. I try to have at least a tin of all types in my closet at one time so I can smoke what appeals to me most at the time. Nevertheless a good burley is sometimes just what the doctor ordered.
in goes your eye out
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Capn Jimbo
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Lots of good reviews out there on these two...
...and not just on tobacco.reviews, but on the forums as well. Seems as though the Solani is the ultimate burley-way-forward blends, while the HH Dark has more of the deep chocolate tones. BTW, in reading the the HH reviews I'm struck by the great similarity with the 5 Vegas "A" Artisan Robusto we reviewed.
I have a hunch that you'll love this Vegas if you can find one. There is nothing more variable than the amazing number of different pipe tobaccos there are, countered by the amazing number of different tastes of those who smoke them.
The task seems to be finding those that really ring your personal balls, er bells. And even then tastes do change, grow and mature. For example new whisky tasters may initially love a Speyside, but in time grow into a Laphroig. I suspect it's the same in pipes, cigars and hookah.
For whatever reason, I really do like the nutty and roastiness of burley, with the Latakia's being less attractive at the moment.
These two sound lovely, damn you...
...and not just on tobacco.reviews, but on the forums as well. Seems as though the Solani is the ultimate burley-way-forward blends, while the HH Dark has more of the deep chocolate tones. BTW, in reading the the HH reviews I'm struck by the great similarity with the 5 Vegas "A" Artisan Robusto we reviewed.
I have a hunch that you'll love this Vegas if you can find one. There is nothing more variable than the amazing number of different pipe tobaccos there are, countered by the amazing number of different tastes of those who smoke them.
The task seems to be finding those that really ring your personal balls, er bells. And even then tastes do change, grow and mature. For example new whisky tasters may initially love a Speyside, but in time grow into a Laphroig. I suspect it's the same in pipes, cigars and hookah.
For whatever reason, I really do like the nutty and roastiness of burley, with the Latakia's being less attractive at the moment.
These two sound lovely, damn you...
I definitely will hunt down a 5 vegas. The latakia being out of favour at the moment is normal (at least for me as well) I really have a cyclical taste pattern that finds me jumping from one main type of tobacco to another, ie Virginia, burley, vapers, latakia etc. There is three tobacco blends that I never tire of though and that is the ilsteds own Virginia plug, Mac Barens Mature Virginia and Mac Barens Arcadian Perique. The first two are now sadly finishing up in production so soon they'll be gone the way of the dodo but the Arcadian lives on.
in goes your eye out
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Capn Jimbo
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Ok so in short nope.
It seems as though the author changed the name of his favourite mixture from 'Craven' to 'Arcadia'
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/arcadia-mixture
Craven mixture hasn't been made in 50 years and the Arcadian mixtures around today haven't a set recipe.
I like Mac Baren's though as it is full of tasty stuff and sans latakia.
"J. M. Barrie, the famous novelist and author, was a valued customer during the 1890s. When he wrote My Lady Nicotine which was published in 1890, he centred the story around a mythical tobacco called Arcadia Mixture. It was not long before Carreras realised that Barrie's sole supply of tobacco was the Craven Mixture he sold at Wardour Street, and in January 1897 Barrie confirmed to Don Jose that Arcadia Mixture and Craven Mixture were one and the same. Shortly afterwards, Carreras began using Barrie's endorsement in his advertising and Craven Mixture benefited as sales at home and abroad increased rapidly."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carreras_Tobacco_Company
It seems as though the author changed the name of his favourite mixture from 'Craven' to 'Arcadia'
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/arcadia-mixture
Craven mixture hasn't been made in 50 years and the Arcadian mixtures around today haven't a set recipe.
I like Mac Baren's though as it is full of tasty stuff and sans latakia.
"J. M. Barrie, the famous novelist and author, was a valued customer during the 1890s. When he wrote My Lady Nicotine which was published in 1890, he centred the story around a mythical tobacco called Arcadia Mixture. It was not long before Carreras realised that Barrie's sole supply of tobacco was the Craven Mixture he sold at Wardour Street, and in January 1897 Barrie confirmed to Don Jose that Arcadia Mixture and Craven Mixture were one and the same. Shortly afterwards, Carreras began using Barrie's endorsement in his advertising and Craven Mixture benefited as sales at home and abroad increased rapidly."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carreras_Tobacco_Company
in goes your eye out