Tough choices....

[Rum-pelstiltskin]

To be clear...


Yes he sells to others (eg Tommy Bahama). But he absolutely insists on bottling every single release as he is insistent that if he makes it, he will bottle it, and it will be pure, period. I know Richard very well, and he is completely dedicated to ecologically sound, well made, pure and unadultered rum.

Please - no one should confuse Richard with the bulk sales of the Virgin Islands or El Dorado - who have no problem in selling altererd bulk shit.

You're not being clear this thread has already made it clear that Seale supplies rum for Plantation. Are we suggesting he bottles it and then they unbottle an re-cask for further ageing??

There is a huge disparity here between what you want to believe and the actual truth. Repeating the same thing does not change that.

Seale needs Cognac Ferrand far more than he needs the Rum Projects approval

[Dai]

To be clear...


Yes he sells to others (eg Tommy Bahama). But he absolutely insists on bottling every single release as he is insistent that if he makes it, he will bottle it, and it will be pure, period. I know Richard very well, and he is completely dedicated to ecologically sound, well made, pure and unadultered rum.

Please - no one should confuse Richard with the bulk sales of the Virgin Islands or El Dorado - who have no problem in selling altererd bulk shit.

You're not being clear this thread has already made it clear that Seale supplies rum for Plantation. Are we suggesting he bottles it and then they unbottle an re-cask for further ageing??

There is a huge disparity here between what you want to believe and the actual truth. Repeating the same thing does not change that.

Seale needs Cognac Ferrand far more than he needs the Rum Projects approval

Now Now guy's, let's not get all hot and bothered under the collar on these matters. All we need do is vote with our wallets based on sound info. Educate others to do the same if they are of our persuasion. The more people vote with there wallets for purity the more purity there will be. It's amazing how fickle distillers can be. The key is education and the wallet speaking loudly.

[Capn Jimbo]

You're not being clear this thread has already made it clear that Seale supplies rum for Plantation. Are we suggesting he bottles it and then they unbottle an re-cask for further ageing??

There is a huge disparity here between what you want to believe and the actual truth. Repeating the same thing does not change that.

Seale needs Cognac Ferrand far more than he needs the Rum Projects approval

I'm not sure the thread has been all that clear; but it's surely fair for me to drop an email to his private address to find out whether he's now changed his long held policy. Back when I spent some face time with him, he was absolutely insistent that the reason he also bottles his product is to make it difficult for it to be altered after the fact by the buyer. This is especially true when his name appears on the bottle.

My own belief is that whatever he delivers is unadulterated, but what happens after that - especially at Plantation - is another matter.

I'll write him today and will share his answer. I'm curious too now. I prefer not to speculate in such general terms. Please cite the specifics, in this case the Plantation rum supplied by Seales, was it altered, and by whom?

Thanks. Good post.

[Rum-pelstiltskin]

You're not being clear this thread has already made it clear that Seale supplies rum for Plantation. Are we suggesting he bottles it and then they unbottle an re-cask for further ageing??

There is a huge disparity here between what you want to believe and the actual truth. Repeating the same thing does not change that.

Seale needs Cognac Ferrand far more than he needs the Rum Projects approval

I'm not sure the thread has been all that clear; but it's surely fair for me to drop an email to his private address to find out whether he's now changed his long held policy. Back when I spent some face time with him, he was absolutely insistent that the reason he also bottles his product is to make it difficult for it to be altered after the fact by the buyer. This is especially true when his name appears on the bottle.

My own belief is that whatever he delivers is unadulterated, but what happens after that - especially at Plantation - is another matter.

I'll write him today and will share his answer. I'm curious too now. I prefer not to speculate in such general terms. Please cite the specifics, in this case the Plantation rum supplied by Seales, was it altered, and by whom?

Thanks. Good post.

I'm not really questioning what state the rum is delivered to Plantation. Just the fact it is.

It seems inconsistent to me to constantly berate those who add sugar etc to rum and then be reliant on them to stay in business.

If you can access Foursquare Distillery's Facebook page it shows some more recent developments between Seale and Plantation.

All the Barbados rums manufactured by Plantation are from Foursquare.

[da'rum]

as an aside; sometimes the lines are blurred on the Project. The fact that there are producers that add stuff to their rums is not the problem. It is the fact that it should be labeled as such. Sugared or altered rum being labeled as premium with the expectation of a true rum is dishonest.

Sugared rum is pleasant, but should be cheap.

[Blade Rummer]

as an aside; sometimes the lines are blurred on the Project. The fact that there are producers that add stuff to their rums is not the problem. It is the fact that it should be labeled as such. Sugared or altered rum being labeled as premium with the expectation of a true rum is dishonest.

Sugared rum is pleasant, but should be cheap.

I agree. Honestly, I don't think we'll ever see producers turning their backs on additives in rum, the best we can hope for now is some honest labeling so we can at least know what we are paying for exactly.

[Dai]

as an aside; sometimes the lines are blurred on the Project. The fact that there are producers that add stuff to their rums is not the problem. It is the fact that it should be labeled as such. Sugared or altered rum being labeled as premium with the expectation of a true rum is dishonest.

Sugared rum is pleasant, but should be cheap.

I agree. Honestly, I don't think we'll ever see producers turning their backs on additives in rum, the best we can hope for now is some honest labeling so we can at least know what we are paying for exactly.

Is this good enough for you?

[Blade Rummer]

as an aside; sometimes the lines are blurred on the Project. The fact that there are producers that add stuff to their rums is not the problem. It is the fact that it should be labeled as such. Sugared or altered rum being labeled as premium with the expectation of a true rum is dishonest.

Sugared rum is pleasant, but should be cheap.

I agree. Honestly, I don't think we'll ever see producers turning their backs on additives in rum, the best we can hope for now is some honest labeling so we can at least know what we are paying for exactly.

Is this good enough for you?

It would be if I could find it in my neck of the woods Have you tried them? I would love to get my hands on that Jamaican bottling.

[da'rum]

That is great. If it were legally binding it would be better. It's more than likely honesty in this case but to have the requirements written in as law would stop less scrupulous people writing any old shit on their bottles. Like 21 year old age statements for example.

[Dai]

That is great. If it were legally binding it would be better. It's more than likely honesty in this case but to have the requirements written in as law would stop less scrupulous people writing any old shit on their bottles. Like 21 year old age statements for example.

I was chatting with the Mezan guy at the rumfest last year they also distribute Seales rum. They are very much into the purity of there rum, and the stuff is damn good.

Try these guy's
http://www.whiskymarketplace.ca/uitvlugt-rum

[Dai]

That is great. If it were legally binding it would be better. It's more than likely honesty in this case but to have the requirements written in as law would stop less scrupulous people writing any old shit on their bottles. Like 21 year old age statements for example.

You keep moving the goal posts da'rum.

[Rum-pelstiltskin]

That is great. If it were legally binding it would be better. It's more than likely honesty in this case but to have the requirements written in as law would stop less scrupulous people writing any old shit on their bottles. Like 21 year old age statements for example.

You keep moving the goal posts da'rum.

They've been on casters for years!

[da'rum]

In what way?

[da'rum]

The goal posts have not been moved. The main complaint at the Project was unregulated or poorly regulated labelling of spirits esp rum. The fudging of age statements and additions of undisclosed flavours and sugars to rum is what the Project was about.

Sure the battle lines are blurred a little at times when the personal preferences of drinking unadulterated rum have lead to disparaging remarks about suspected adulterated rums. However as far as I've seen the preferences of people in regards to their palate has been respected. If you like sugar bombs then who'swho's to stop you? This again can be confused with my and others dislike of companies who engage in corporate bullying and aggressive market domination techniques ie Diageo who's products I will steer clear of out of sheer principle opposed to quality concerns.

So the goal posts are fixed, it's just hard fir some to see them.

[Capn Jimbo]

The concerns have never changed...


They are:

1. Rum has been long been altered. Rum by rum, we have worked to reveal them, beginning with the Zee rums, and continuing on.

2. As the Big Three have taken over the shelves (over 90%), the alteration and cheapening of the product has increased.

3. The regulations have not changed, are clear, but are weakly enforced, if at all.

4. The quasi-commercial sites have until recently denied unlabeled alteration and flavoring until unequivocally revealed by Sweden, and ALKO last year. Even then these sites resist admitting sugar (and other additives) in their "reviews" of now proven altered rums.

5. The massive, multi-billion dollar subsidies to the Big Three in the VI and PR are destroying the market and Caribbean rum as we knew it. Look at your shelves.

6. The products continue to be degraded and now even include Mount Gay and El Dorado. El Dorado's rums are no longer trustworthy insofar as honest labeling.

The Rum Project has held for years that unlabeled alteration was occurring, it has now been proven, and still the labels are misleading in almost every way, including content and age.

Our position has never changed, and remains to reveal the truth of rogue in these regards. Rum in general in no way is a "noble spirit", but has now devolved into two classes: limited, mega-premium limited releases, and Big Three crap that these mega-corporations that now dominate 90% of the rum shelf space, and 100% of the prime space due to their tremendous clout with the distributors.

Anyone who has a hard on for Richard Seale is misdirected and should note that he has stood nearly alone in revealing and promoting the practice. As the Project has reached major audiences, as Caribbean rums are being forced out of business or to lower their quality (think El Dorado) his statements have only become bolder and clearer insofar as this issue.


As for Richard:

Rumple obliquely refers to Foursquare's Facebook entry, namely:

Foursquare:

"More VIP visitors with us at Foursquare, this time with Alexandre Gabriel and Matthieu Gouze of Plantation Rums.

We discussed some very interesting collaborative possibilities. Alexandre likes to experiment so he has some interesting ideas that we have to attempt to implement that could eventually find their way in some special releases.

'Rummies' would have enjoyed being a fly on the wall these last few days at Foursquare."

Clearly this refers to a discussion about future collaberations, and you can be sure they will meet Seale's standards or they will not happen, at least with his name on it. Skepticism is welcomed; unsubstantiated rumour or implication is not. Please do try to be specific and link whenever possible.




*******
For those who still doubt, I urge all to check out this must read link to Richard holding forth, no holds barred...

http://thefloatingrumshack.com/content/ ... I7fQ%3D%3D