Which apparatus and why?

Coffee, cigars and rum go togther like priests and choirboys. Indeed the brothers are known to have a tipple now and then. Oh and some rum, cigars and Belgian beer as well, lol...
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da'rum
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Which apparatus and why?

Post by da'rum »

I like a coffee but don't roast my own beans or anything like that, I will buy some good beans when I see them though.

I use a coffee press or a stove stop espresso maker for my coffee and find they both make good coffee depending on the bean and grind. However a friend of mine bought a vacuum coffee maker the other day which intrigued me in its design and function. The coffee it makes is fine and smooth with noticeably less bitterness than my espresso maker.

I then looked further and found a Belgian or Vienna coffee maker which also works on pressure and vacuum principles.

What do you use to make your coffee? What are you trying to achieve? Heavy and strong? Light and fine?
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Capn Jimbo
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

My caffeinated friend...


I am absolutely NOT your best resource on this one, and I trust that Sleepy - still active - here will show up sooner or later to add better information. What I can pass along is some links to Sweet Maria's who are very well known and respected insofar as all things coffee - from beans to roasters. I buy all my sample packs from them. Regarding your question, I quote..
SM:

"We love vacuum brewing! It was a predominant infusion method early in the century, before paper coffee filters became widely popular. It takes a bit longer, but once you have tried it a couple times the process is fast and simple. And your incentive to use these devices will be clear: coffee with pronounced body and no sediment; very clean and crisp; a cup where flavors are dramatic and heightened in every respect.

Delicate coffees (African coffees, central Americans...) are especially suited for vacuum brewing. Is vacuum brewing for everyone?

No...vacuum brewing produces a very clean cup - and so some can find it weak. But one man's "clean" is another man's "weak"! If you like French press brewing, the clarity of this cup might seem thin to you...it is a matter of preference. We have more tips on brewing on this page."
And regarding your press...
"French Press brewing is a great way to make a powerful cup of coffee quickly and simply. Sweet Maria's offers a selection of top-of-the-line chromed stainless steel presses from Bodum. This is the French standard chrome cafe press, well-made, not some wacko-futuristic, artist-signed, limited edition showpiece. Not that there is anything wrong with that.....

It pays to get yourself a nice, well-made French Press because you will regret it very quickly if you don't!

Remember that a press allows more sediment from the grind into the final cup; that is what makes french press coffee distinctive. Some degree of sediment is desired; it means more solids dissolved in the brew which imparts a more robust mouth feel to the coffee. Too much sediment is bad, so to balance this you need an even grind, so a burr mill is the best way to go. Another trick is to install a fine nylon sediment screen to augment the metal filter and remove more fine particles. Or just avoid drinking the dregs in your cup.

Extra sediment or not, we strongly feel that the advantages of press brewing are considerable, that it perfectly compliments fresh home roasted coffee (because the water and coffee fully mix for the recommended 2-4 minute brew time), and because no flavorful oils are lost to (or tainted by) a paper filter. Check out our French Press Brewing Tip Sheet."
Links for you...
http://www.sweetmarias.com/sweetmarias/ ... ource=grid
http://www.sweetmarias.com/sweetmarias/ ... ource=grid


Sleepy, wake up woncha?
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
da'rum
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Post by da'rum »

Tres cool, merci beaucoup mon ami
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Post by sleepy »

D...

Vacuum coffee makers excel at brewing a clean rich cup of coffee. The downside is cleaning/maintenance and fragility. For a clean, but less rich, cup, the cheapest, and still unbeatable, option is a Melitta filter cone or equivalent, a kettle and a thermos. Automatic drip coffee makers that pump ~200F water to the coffee are easier, but provide only comparable results (I use a Capresso that delivers 198F water into an unheated (but warmed with hot water) thermal carafe.

EDIT: The reason I say that the Melitta/kettle approach is better is that, with total control, you can take your proper temperature water and entirely wet the grounds, allow that initial heat to steep for a minute, then then pour the remainder of the water. Automatics are generally indifferent to this pre-infusion step and, with the worst, you will occasionally (or regularly) find dry grounds at the top of the filter when you go to empty the basket. Sometimes ritual is good :D

For richer, but muddier, cup, the press is great. Even with a mill grinder, there will be fine grounds that find their way into the cup - not always a bad thing! If you like lots of body and medium to dark roasts, these are wonderful.

I still have three "stovetop" espresso makers, although they have been relegated to camping duty. I especially love the ritual of my single cup, which delivers into a hand-held cup rather than an overheated top section.

If you like real espresso and don't plan on entertaining lots of people with your barrista pulchritude, I hear very good things about the small, relatively inexpensive Bodum espresso makers - I use an old Solus that can serve up to maybe 4 in a reasonable time frame.

For both the press and espresso, I recommend a mill grinder. Healthy bite for a decent one, but they last forever. For filter or vacuum, a whirly-gig grinder is fine.
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

He wasn't named the King of Koffee fer nuthin...


And if our sleepy friend keeps it up, and continues to serve and please with skill, perhaps one day he will earn the title "King Kong of Koffee". Or something.


Back to earth...

Sleepy, you raised an interesting point about some residual dry coffee being left on the top of a Melita drip load. With our cheap thrill, Senor Coffee round dripster, I do two things: first I use one of those inexpensive reusable plastic-framed filters, which allows me to shake it gently side-to-side and "level" the coffee load. Then as the first hot water is delivered into the filter, I turn it every few seconds so that the entire load of coffee is wet evenly and early.

Works for me.

This thread is also a good place to note that Sleepy sent me a not so PM, revealed here discussing both the French Press and our "Aeropress" - that purports to produce a clean, full coffee somewhere in between a press and an expresso (a premise fully rejected I see, by expresso lovers).

So knowing hardly anything about these fine points, what better test than having Sue Sea and I compare our usual drip, to both a press and the Aero in a nice horizontal tasting.

Eh?
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Post by sleepy »

To repeat - I hold the opinion that the best drip coffee is achieved with a classic, manual drip cone. I love the one that Sweet Maria's sells that flows directly into a standard thermos. The process requires no zombie training! Slowly pour boiling water over all of the grounds so that they are thoroughly wet, wait 30 seconds then pour until the cone is full. Refresh as needed until you carafe is full.

Many drip coffee makers have single-port "spray-heads" that will waste some grounds unless, as Jimbo indicated, you carefully level them. Those with a drip-stop function are also useful - don't insert the carafe until the grounds are thoroughly wetted.

Now, to press brewers.

French Press brewers are a system in which you measure coffee into a carafe, pour hot water over it, then after your choice of steeping times, you insert the top, which contains a filtering piston, which is pressed down (hence press) to separate brewed coffee from grounds. This method is designed for slow steeping of coarse ground coffee. Due to the standard design of the filters (think not-quite-no-see-um capable screen), a lot of "fines" (the coffee dust from grinding) find their way into the cup. Hence, a "muddier" cup, but also richer because of the longer steeping and those very fines.

Aeropress seems to be a space-age extraction system for creating concentrated coffee extract for subsequent mixing with hot water. I don't get it, and I haven't tried it. Wikipedia gives a different impression (but with VERY low water temperatures). <shrug>

My three methods - drip, French Press and espresso (whether pump or stovetop) cover the full range of flavors and textures that I seek from coffee.
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Good grief! I'da never believed it...


Just for giggles here on this Christmas Day, I did two cups in my handy-dandy IKEA press. I have found the I-boyz a place to find more than reasonable quality at surprisingly affordable prices. I think their press was around $12, with only modest confidence, but you get the idea. I'd never used it before this.

For two cups I ground 2 tbl of beans with my simple whirly grinder, boiled two cups of water in a whistling tea kettle, added the ground coffee and hot water to the glass cylinder/pot. Stirred it one time, waited 4 minutes and when the time was up, used the screened plunger/cover, plunged it gently to push the grounds to the bottom, and poured.


It didn't taste like the same coffee!

I'm serious. We've been roasting the same bean for a week now, so we're quite used to how it tastes. Or so I thought. My normal method is our good old Senor Coffee, with round reusable filter, 8 cups per event. Now any dummy, or idiot and certainly a Compleat Idiot is under the impression that fresh ground and brewed is well, fresh ground and brewed. It's just coffee, not Pappy van Winkle's 20 Year, right?

Wrong. Boy was I surprised. Now certainly you are asking "When is he gonna STFU, and tell us the differences, if any?". Right now and as a fledgling coffee taster here goes...

At first sip I immediately knew something was up, and it was something good. Really good (now isn't that descriptive?). The coffee was somehow smoother, and seemingly with a lot more going on, flavors and sensations that simply weren't there before (or very well hidden if they were).

Now mind you we like a strong, robust and hair raising coffee (it IS supposed to wake you up, you know). And somehow this pressed version was still as strong as expected, but - noticeably - in a much smoother and pleasant way. In sum the entire experience was more interesting and the coffee seemed richer and smoother, more pleasant and enticing and maybe not so good...

More drinkable. It made me want a second sip and a second cup. Mind you I always drink two cups in the morning, but with this method? I'll have to restrain myself from drinking myself into a caffeinated frenzy. Later, when Sue Sea awoke I did another press for the both of us and she too concurred, as we again enjoyed the pressed coffee with some chocolate and cookies taken home from Christmas Eve.

Perfect!


Flat Ass Bottom Line

1. If you haven't tried French Press, Sleepy has certainly convinced me. I concur.

2. It takes a little more attention, but not much more time. You still have to grind the coffee, but the whistling teapot does not require your presence.

3. Whereas Senor Coffee drips away on his own, your presence is not much required. He don't need no steenking operator. OTOH, the press makes you a bigger part of the production. You assemble the pieces/parts, boil the water - you participate and can play with for example, the brew time, et al. The press requires, uh, pressing. This is good. You feel like YOU brewed the coffee, sans the Senor.

4. The results for the same roasted coffee are noticeable, and for the better. Somehow the same coffee seems richer, smoother, more drinkable and more interesting.

My cheap ass advice? Go for it!
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

And in the spirit of OCD-ness, we just hadda keep at it....


This time comparing the Aeropress to our IKEA French press. Interestingly the Aero is made by the people who make frisbees - what a heritage! But apparently someone there is a bean-head and decided to one-up the classic French press.

The Aero works quite similarly to the French. The proper amount of ground coffee is added to the main body with the only difference being that the Aero grind can be, and usually is finer as it has a paper filter, ergo no grounds in your cup. The French wants a coarser grind so you don't end up with a bunch of coal dust in your mouth (ala Greek coffee).

Then you add water - the full cup amount for French, stir, and brew for say 4 minutes compared to the Aero which adds a notably smaller amount, about half as much (or less), mix and brew for perhaps 30 seconds to a minute. In sum, the French uses a full cup of water for longer, the Aero a smaller amount for much less time.

Result: a drinkable cup of coffee from the French, and what Sleepy calls a "concentrate" from the Aero (to which you add hot water for a "full" cup of coffee.


So why is the Aero use less water for a shorter time?

According to Aero their goal is to avoid extracting excess and poor tasting oils from coffee. Ergo, less time, and forcing less water through the grounds. Another difference: because the Aero has a paper filter, the press is actually forcing the hot water through the grounds with a bit of notable pressure and is believed thusly to extract more coffee. OTOH the French press plunger needs no pressure at all, and the plunger is merely capturing the grounds from the brewed coffee.

It depends what you want: a short, pressure-free stroke, or a long, pressured one. Hey it's your peniference.

Aero also feels that because there is a notable pressure involved, that they claim a similarity to an expresso method (which also uses pressure). Expresso lovers oppose this comparison vigorously (just like the rhum snobs who reject the English vocabulary for "cane juice rum").


All in all it's the results that count...

Caveat! Sue Sea and I are in no way qualified to compare these devices, so feel free to click off to somewhere else. For Sleepy and da'Rum et al, though, our first and quick impression is that there doesn't seem to be much difference and both devices were better than Senor Cafe. Still, that's not fair, Sue Sea is not feeling well and we'll try this again.

Still, if this proves to be the case, I'm going with the French press for it's relative ease and let's be honest - I like glass and stainless more than frisbee rubber and plastic. And as a lover of good cafe cubano and/or Greek coffee, a bit of fine grounds left behind is perfectly fine.

Are we right? If we are there's absolutely no grounds for it. Or maybe there are...
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Post by NCyankee »

I got a French press a few years ago - used it for a little while, and liked it quite a bit. Unfortunately, shortly afterward I found out that drinking coffee made without a paper filter can raise your cholesterol - and mine had already gone up quite a bit just before this, so I stopped using it. :cry: (OK i still use it once in a while, but use a paper filter 95% of the time.)

Apparently the oils that are filtered out by the paper filter give the French pressed coffee more flavor - but are also responsible for helping raise your cholesterol - but according to what I have read, this only occurs in those who are already prone to high cholesterol, which unfortunately includes me.
Last edited by NCyankee on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
da'rum
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Post by da'rum »

Thanks for the answers guys. I'll stick to my french press and stove top espresso maker. I like coffee with a bit of grit and punch to it.

Cheers
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Post by NCyankee »

I actually had a very good cup of coffee yesterday at - of all places - Starbucks.

The only reason I was even there was to use a 50% off deal we got on groupon, and I was surprised to see a list of single-origin coffees on their "clover" list - whatever the hell that was.

Among these was Yirgacheffe, which I had yet to try - so I did, and it was quite good - and at $3.75 for a 16 oz cup, comparably priced to a cup of Chemex coffee I had at a local coffee house a little while ago.

Turns out that "clover" is the immersion machine they use, which is a sort of upside-down mechanical French press / vacuum hybrid.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/ga ... -maker.htm
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

For the patient...


...the link (thanks) is a long article, but well worth the read. Apparently the Clover company's machine (at $11K) earned a reputation for making a completely consistent, and totally customized brew for each individual cup. Accordingly it was purchased by many independent coffee shops who promoted this special ability, and which justified a higher price and profitability.

Along came Starbucks whose stock had been falling (to half its value) based on their volume and resulting in the loss of the relaxed and slower coffeeshop experience. The "romance and theater" was gone They found the machine so effective in this regard that it bought the company and is installing it at selected locations whose volume is such as to allow this customized fresh cup. But as for the independents?


Starbucks wasn't very nice...

1. The warranties are now in question and may not be honored, with Starbucks charging for repairs.

2. Factory training of owners and baristas will cease (except for Starbucks)

3. An important network software program called "Clovernet" was important to track sales and earnings. Access to this key software will be cancelled for the independents.

I'll never forget when Starbucks first appeared and drove our well establishe and popular coffeeshop out of business. How? Even though they had two shops withing 10 minutes of our local shop, they build a third across the street long enough for our guy to be driven to close his doors. And then? Mission accomplished, they closed their shop as really unneeded anymore.

Viscious.
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Post by edgarallanpoe »

Well well well...a website that covers rum *and* coffee? I might just have found my new home. lol

I have a good french press and a Technivorm Moccamaster. I almost always use the Moccamaster.

There are 2 things required for good coffee.

1. Great beans...duh.
2. Not as well known...proper temps. After the fiasco of the idiot spilling coffee on herself and suing the pants off of McDonalds, coffee makers decided (in their great wisdom) to lower their temps in order to not get sued. This resulted in just about every drip coffee maker for over a decade making shitty coffee no matter how good the bean.

The Technivorm is one of the few that get the water to proper temps. It makes a spectacular cup of joe. I haven't looked at coffee makers in a long time so I would wager coffee makers have relaxed their temp restrictions quite a bit since I last looked. Still, I have had this Moccamaster for over a decade. Come for anything in the house...but touch that Moccamaster and you'll see a side of me you don't want to see. rofl
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Edgar, you are SO right...


I don't know why good and pure rums, coffee and a fine cigar or pipe go together, but they do. Just got 5 pound of a really good sounding Ethiopian from Sweet Maria's, and can't wait to roast it...
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Post by SlowRain »

I'm going to start off with my grinders because that's actually an overlooked essential to making good coffee. I use an Orphan Espresso Pharos for espresso, and an Orphan Espresso Lido 2 for everything else. I have a Porlex and a made-in-Taiwan Feima 600N, both of which were decent for their respective prices, but they've been put out to pasture.

For brewed coffee, I have a Kalita Wave 155 when I just want one cup, and I use a Hario V60-03 (with Chemex filters) when I want multiple cups. My pouring kettle is the Kalita Wave one. I also have 12oz and 34oz Bodum French presses. And, finally, I have an Aeropress, which I mainly use for iced coffee in the summer. Considering the weather is starting to warm up, I'll be switching over pretty soon. My espresso machine is a La Pavoni PRH.

I do my own roasting on a Quest M3, also made here in Taiwan. It's a pretty good little electric roaster, and it's fully manual--like most of my other coffee equipment. As for beans, I'm partial to dry-processed coffees from the Yirgacheffe region of Ethiopia, but I don't find them easy to roast. I like them for both hot and iced coffee, but I also like Kenyan coffees iced as well. I prefer medium-light coffee for brewed, and a blend of medium-roasted coffees for espresso. I can take a bit of brightness, but not full-on sour. Alternatively, I have an extreme dislike of ashy, burnt-tasting coffee.
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