Coke or Pepsi Dept: Murder in Ferguson, Missouri

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Capn Jimbo
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Coke or Pepsi Dept: Murder in Ferguson, Missouri

Post by Capn Jimbo »

With the world watching, again?

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/21/cell_ph ... l_killing/
(Revised link, sorry)


Something is very, very wrong. I won't call this racism, though perhaps we should. It sure seems like an execution, aka murder. FWIW, this man openly took two cans of pop from a store without paying. The clerk called the police, while the man calmly set them down on the sidewalk while waiting for the police.

When they arrived, guns already drawn, he kept his distance, hands in plain sight and exchanged words in essence "Are you gonna shoot me? Go ahead, shoot me" as a kind of dare and protest against the original shooting of the teenager.

He then walks away, is ordered to return and as he does so, the two officers both empty their weapons from a safe distance. He falls forward onto the sidewalk and is immobized, soon to die. The policemen simply stand and watch, make no attempt to call an ambulance, but do call for back up, after the fact. They actually handcuff him after he has apparently died.

The man is left on the sidewalk, still no ambulance while other officers now put up crime scene tape and yell at the bystanders.

This will not help the situation - we so desperately need calm and common sense. Why a dialogue was not engaged, why a taser was not used, why, why, why? We'll never know. Heaven help us all.
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by sleepy »

The police riots in MO remind me too much of the Chicago cop riots @ the Chicago Democratic convention, and even earlier Selma, Montgomery, ...

I had hoped we had turned that page.

Not sure of the soure, but: "The role of the military is to defend the people from our enemies, the role of the police is to protect the people; when the police are militarized, the people inevitably become the enemy."
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Exactly, and well cited. I still remember when there were the good old Officer Murphy's who knew your name, and you knew and respected him. You'd even find him after work sharing a pint at the neighborhood pub.

Those days are over.
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Post by bearmark »

Personally, I'm not a fan of jumping to conclusions without all of the facts, as has been the case with the Brown incident. There are people closer to the incident that will discover the truth and that should be all that matters in the end and what any judgment should be based on.

For some balance, I provide this quote:
Slate wrote:On the other side of the argument, it's inarguable that Powell refused officers' orders to drop his knife and then moved toward them. A source told CNN's Jake Tapper that police act under the assumption that a suspect armed with a knife standing within 20 feet will be able to wound them if their weapons are not already drawn.
In this case, weapons were drawn (presumably due to the presence of the knife) and Powell was about 7-8 feet away (per CNN) when shots were fired. Things could have been much different had Powell not approached the officers with a knife in his hand.

Also, I don't see what the militarization comment has to do with this particular incident, since the police were called to the scene by the store owner, presumably for protection. I haven't heard whether Powell used the knife inside the store.
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

My sincere apologies...


Sorry Bear, I haven't a clue why, but the OP link to the incident video is now showing the man in the store and leaving, apparently taking the cans of soda, which is not informative. Either You Tube changed the video, or I somehow linked the wrong video (not likely). Bear and Sleepy, here are links to the correct video which is horrifying, clear and should be quite persuasive...

Try this first, from Salon with details...
http://www.salon.com/2014/08/21/cell_ph ... l_killing/

Here's two You Tube links, hopefully one will work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... -P54MZVxMU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... ZVxMU#t=58

I can't/won't speak for Sleepy, but the militarization of the Ferguson police has been pretty clear and has been televised incessantly for the past few weeks.

Please review this actual, live tape of the incident. The police actually filed a report that the man was just 3 to 4 ft away with a knife raised overhead; CNN reported he was 7 to 8 feet, and my analysis of the tape is that he was actually around 15 ft from one officer, and about 20 ft from the other. He was shot repeatedly before he even reached a thigh high wall that was well between him and the police car. No raised knife.

Again, my apologies - apparently You Tube received so many complaints about this violent and upsetting tape that they moved it, and also added a warning. It was my intention not to draw conclusions from news or police reports, but to link the a good video of actual event, and to then comment based on my own repeated viewings. FWIW, I know an experienced detective who is adamant that this police shooting was indefensible and outrageous.
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

The knife issue is moot. Ask the Brits...


The police report: that this man was 3 to 4 feet away, with a knife visible held overhead and in a "stabbing position". Neither was true, as this man was wandering, was about 15 feet away, with a wall separating the officers. He was shot multiple times before he reached the wall.

The universal protocol for using deadly force, ie shooting, is a situation that "poses the imminent threat of immediate mortal danger". This protocol, which applies to all gunowners as well, suggests a series of interventions.

1. Negotiate, and try to calm the situation. Instead, the officers exited their vehicle with drawn guns, and raised them to shooting position.

2. Retreat or contain the situation and call for backup. Keep negotiating.

3. Use a mid distance taser or pepper spray. They are designed for this kind of situation.

There is a haunting parallel between the two incidents. In both, the victims were ordered or caused to turn around - and only then shot - quickly and from a distance in both cases. I'd hate to think it, but this almost seems intended to provide justification for the subsequent shootings.

In this case if there actually was a knife - it was certainly not raised. The officers do not order the man to stop, or lay down, no warnings are given, the police do not retreat but instead simply start firing from a safe distance. Unjustified and excessive force.


How would the Brits have responded?

Remember, most of their police are unarmed, and still have to confront and disarm suspects armed with knives or even machetes. How do they do this?

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/08/uk-po ... one-knife/

This article demonstrates the effective non-lethal tactics used in Britain, which include shooting the suspect - but with a Taser gun (aka stun gun, airtaser, etc.) which can be very effective at distances up to 25 or 30 feet. The Ferguson police are equipped with Tasers, and do use them, but sadly not in this case.

The British article also confirms the non-lethal policy of slowing the situation and state...
"The officers who shot Powell did have a choice. They could have moved away from him. They could have gotten back into their car to protect themselves. They could have run away. All of those options are preferable to killing someone, and those tactics are used in other countries where human life is deemed more valuable than the need to assert authority.
The article shows two videos which you MUST watch. One is of a man with a knife (who at one point approaches an officer, waving it; and the other is of a big and very aggressive man who is actively going after officers swinging a big machete. These officers demonstrate how the nearly universal police protocol is supposed to work.

It's interesting to note just how close these armed and dangerous men get to the British officers, who still somehow manage to subdue them without resorting to execution from a distance.
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