Sydney Frank Dept: The Penultimate Vodka Taste Test

F. Paul Pacult calls gin "...the best of white spirits for cocktails and my favorite overall white spirit." That's saying something. Gin has all the finesse and sophistication that vodka never will. Best yet, true world class gins can be purchased in the $20 range. A very few valid wodkas (and Everclear) appear here!
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Sydney Frank Dept: The Penultimate Vodka Taste Test

Post by Capn Jimbo »

Sydney Frank Dept: A Vodka Taste Test: The Penultimate Intergalactic Patented Capn Jimbo Vodka Taste Test


We have long taken the position of Sydney Frank (Grey Goose) and Andy Granatelli (STP). When these gentlemen were asked what part marketing plays in their product, Andy quipped "STP? STP is marketing" while Sydney, whose Grey Goose established the super-premium category for a spirit that theretofore was most cheap shit bottom shelf, buzzy juice, said to effect: "Vodka is just alcohol and water. If I can triple the price, it's all profit".

And boy did they both profit! They learned that dumbass Americans, in our snake oil tradition, actually prefer a good story to a good product. And these my friends, is exactly why I have no respect whatever for vodka, and for the companies that have extended this con job to brown spiritis.


Vodka Taste Tests


Business Week Magazine, among others, have tended to agree and performed a dandy taste test. As you are no doubt aware there are vodka drinkers who are absolutely wedded to a particular (expensively marketed) brand. Think Grey Goose, Ketel One, Absolut, Trump and the like. Think Perrier and Dasani water. They swear by the brand, won't drink any other and make sure everybody knows it.

Of course this is absolute mooseshit.

So the Business Week author gathered such a group of die hards and organized a series of blind taste tests including straight up, chilled in frozen shots, in a dry martini and last with cranberry juice. In all but one test the vodka included their "must have" brand among other name brands plus a couple of cheepies. The last test was a clinker in that all the "vodkas" were the same one. You know the results:

Of all these drinkers and test, there was but one lucky guess and on just one of the tasting, and that lone guess was an agonized one at that: Ketel One. Many actually chose the cheap vodkas.

ABC's 20/20 performed a similar series including five super-premium vodkas (Ketel One, Belvedere, Hangar One, Stoli Elit and Grey Goose) and one economy brand (Smirnoff). They were encouraged to nose them at room temperature, then to taste each straight up and make notes. Mind you these testers were of the fanatically dedicated type. In this case the result were really amazing;

Five of the six tasters all agreed! On what? That the first vodka was clearly the worst. And what vodka was that? Grey Goose. The tasters were shocked...
"No way!!!" said Freeland.

"I can't believe that!" exclaimed Kay. "I mean I'm really very loyal to it. And I just totally dismissed it."

"I'm shocked," said Gliksman. "I really am shocked, because it was bad."

"I guess that says something about the marketing then, doesn't it?" said DeGroff. "They're not relying heavily on their taste buds. They're relying more heavily on the perceived value, or the status."
This was followed by mixed drink test to see if the tasters could perceive the "nuances" in a Cosmopolitan. The result were even more striking. According to ABC "It turns out that the testers had a tough time distinguishing between cosmos made with the $62 Stoli Elit and cosmos made with the $13 Smirnoff."

I could go on, as these types of tests abound. But I had an even better test in mind...


The Capn Jimbo Patented Integalactic Penultimate Vodka Taste Test

Now even though other taste tests made clear that not only couldn't the diehards identify their own "must have" brand, and that in many cases actually chose the cheaper if not cheapest brand, I wanted to perform the ultimate test. Not that I have ever been accused of being an extremist (personally I call it my Mediterranean passion).

It starts here.

I have a good friend, a former bartender and hard drinking former military officer, and on whom I've wasted more than a few great rums and whiskies. Waste you say? Why? Simple. He's a balls-to-the-wall vodka drinker, and swears - hand to his heart and with a snappy salute - that he drinks nothing but Pinnacle, although he also owns Absolut, Ketel One, and New Amsterdam.

We own just one - Svedka - and only because it was a very good deal. I know better. So I invited the Colonel over for a vodka taste test. I told him I had two - Svedka and a French Maxim - that he'd never had. I said we'd set up a nice blind tasting. But there was a catch...


My Maxim actually wasn't Vodka!

What!? So what was what I hoped would be the clinker? It was - tada! - Graves Grain Alcohol! The absolute bottom of shelf, cheapest of the cheap, 151 proof, pure alcohol firewater. I then diluted it to 80 proof (40%) with tasteless distilled water and carefully poured it into the terribly fancy blue Maxim bottle - very classy! And it was this faux "Maxim" that I later presented to the Colonel with a flourish, "I have a special treat for you...". "Nice bottle" he admiringly replied.

Ha!


The Test

I decided to give my good friend and unknowing test subject every single benefit of the doubt so I first asked "How do you like to drink your vodka?". Straight up, with a single ice cube. So I carefully poured 1-1/2 shots of each and added a cube and served in a small rocks glass, in this order:

1. Pinnacle: his gotta-have, swear-by-it favorite
2. Absolut
3. Ketel One
4. New Amsterdam
5. Svedka
6. "Maxim"

The results were astounding...

1. Pinnacle: "...good, a little bite, not as smooth as I expected"
2. Absolut: "...smooth, nice, no bite, a little aftertaste"
3. Ketel One: "...even, smooth, real good, excellent"
4. New Amsterdam: " ...slight bite, and a bitey aftertaste"
5. Svedka: "...no bite, but a little aftertaste
6. "Maxim": "...smooth, no bite, but a slight aftertaste"

We then did some elimination tasting.

And his comparison? "I hated number one (his Pinnacle), it was the worst! Number two and four weren't much better (Absolute and New Amsterdam). All said my favorite is number three (Ketel) but five and six were both very good, pretty close (Svedka, "Maxim").

Holy Moly, Batman! The Colonel hated his signature vodka, and found the most and least expensive vodkas nearly equal, along with - tada! tada!... grain alcohol.


Bottom Line:

Yes, I had finally conducted the True Ultimate Vodka Test and grain alcohol was scored up high with the most expensive vodka on the list, while the Colonel's gotta-have, go-to Pinnacle was the only one he absolutely rejected (pun intended).

Let's all raise a Graves to Sydney and Andy...
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

There's more...


After all this, Sue Sea - who'd been the good observer - decided to jump in. We then poured two shots - one of the super-premium Ketel One and one of my faux "Maxim" grain alcohol. We sipped them both at room temperature, straight up. To our great surprise we both preferred the dilute Graves Grain Alcohol, finding it had great body and was entirely smooth.

If this doesn't prove anything about the value of market driven expectations, nothing will. Even Sue Sea - who has a truly open mind - resisted for a moment based on not only the appearance of the Graves bottle (which would be more at home in the chemical section of a hardware store) but also on the memory of a long ago, over-spiked fruit punch that got everybody stinking drunk and sick.

And even then - we both preferred the Graves. So be it...


The Juice...


. . . . . . . Image

Graves come in both a blue (190 proof) and red (151 proof) versions. We used the red label, purchased at $19. I have since found that the blue label can be had for about $15. At this price and diluted to vodka strength (40%) that's good for 1781 ml of "vodka", or not quite 2-1/2 bottles.

That's about $6.30 a bottle for a product that holds its own with Ketel One.
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Was this really accidental?


Perhaps not. This grain alcohol is made by the C. H. Graves Co. (currently C. H. Graves Distilled Products Co., Lewiston, Maine and Londonderry, New Hampshire). The company was founded in 1849, and made what they called a "Superior Dry Gin", among other products including Taylor Whiskey and Hub Punch. A company brochure is reported to say:
"C.H. Graves & Sons ...: alcohol distillers, importers and wholesale liquor dealers : proprietor, and manufacturers of the trade mark goods known as Graves' xxx extra French cologne spirits, Atwood's pure alcohol, Boston extra alcohol, Graves' grain alcohol.."
Most of you should be familiar also with "Everclear" or "Golden Grain" grain alcohols, both made by Luxco from corn, up to 95.6%, the highest practical liimit of distillation. At this purity, there are no congeners to speak of, so any "tastes" may have more to do with the bottling.


A Note to Alpha Monkeys


Warning: the following may cause certain Shillery monkeys and/or Canadian predators to choke on their bananas. Before their condescending alphas get too smug, know that Luxco also produces Admiral Nelson's rum, Arrow liqueurs, Caffé Lolita, El Mayor, Everclear, Ezra Brooks Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey, Juarez tequila, Pearl vodka, Purple Passion, Rebel Yell whiskey, Saint Brendan's Irish Cream, Salvador's, Tvarscki vodka, and Yago Sant'gria a sangria.

Choke on that, monkeys.

In my opinion "vodka" is the ultimate bullshit, made up product that is sold entirely on its marketing and the expectations and prestige falsely attributed to it. That a simple grain alcohol can hold its own, if not prevail over "super premium" vodkas is no surprise. In some ways the long history and experience of a company like Graves or Luxco may even produce a better and more reliable product.

Be honest - can you overcome your own prejudices?
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by NCyankee »

I agree with you about vodka, have never bought an expensive one in my life - the ones I stock are either Smirnoff or Sobieski, both of which I can get on sale for ~$10.

One thing I will say about your friend - at least he's not pretentious, because pinnacle is one of the cheaper brands.

I have recently discovered the Rain Organics line of flavored vodkas, which have interesting flavors, not overly sweet, and not very pricey, on sale here right now for $14.

My girlfriend thought the honey mango melon sounded interesting when we were on vacation, and I grabbed a bottle of the cucumber lime last week. Both are very pleasant sippers neat or on the rocks.
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Post by jankdc »

Does anyone notice a difference in taste if it is sold in plastic or glass bottles?
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Post by da'rum »

I am of the opinion that everything tastes better from glass. Our taste receptors can pick up things in the parts per million and I think mine definitely pick chemical tastes from plastic. It could be just in my head though and don't have any proof that it makes a difference.
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Post by Uisge »

Capn Jimbo wrote: Be honest - can you overcome your own prejudices?
On some things, no. Especially something that, by US statute, is supposed to be "odorless, colorless, and flavorless". But I believe I've stated my opinion on that before.

But I admit to having some prejudices, such as besides vodka, I know very little about gin, and really have no desire to dig into that category of drink.

I think the "flavorless" thing is what bugs me about vodka as I DO enjoy flavors when a good mouth-feel is part of it, and so my thinking is, "Why even bother with the flavored versions?" Most likely they have as much chemical adulteration as many Twiggy and even some aged rums.

And vodkas are not aged, which also is a mark against them in my book. I mean, I'm as guilty as anyone at being impatient, but some things truly are better when one waits for them to mature, like the sample I had of the Buffalo Trace White Dog spirit this past June, very good as new make distillate goes, but the wonderful magic via chemistry and time that it takes to have that new make turn into bourbon (whatever brand/mashbill one prefers) is all the more amazing.

I think Buffalo Trace's Oak Project highlights that (for the good results, and for the not so good results, if nothing else it offers knowledge from the application of the type of wood, cut, wood grain, etc).
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Ooops. Did I mean what I appear to have said?


I'm with you U-man. By overcoming one's own predjudices, I speak to the vodka fans who are completely taken in by this ridiculous spirit that is nothing more than really quite tasteless alcohol, water and the ingredients they really pay for: bottles, marketing and "prestige".

My point: can these suckers overcome their predjudices and realize that there's really not much discernable difference between grain alcohol and their super premium vodka? Otherwise, they'd buy a bottle of Graves, dilute it with distilled water and pour it in an empty Grey Goose bottle. Their guests will never know, and if they can indeed overcome their predjudices...

Neither will they.


As far as gin goes...

F. Paul Pacult once said "In my world, gin is the best white spirit for cocktails and my overall favorite white spirit. No white spirit exhibits the elegance of gins, period".

As posted elsewhere, we tend to agree. Fine gins have a substantial history and tradition, in all of its styles: London Dry, Plymouth, Holland and New American. Oh, and German as well. The infusion of juniper and any number of real herbs and botanicals, often using a gin head on a pot still remains pure artistry. If single malts show what inherent congeners and oak aging can do, gin shows what brilliant infusion of outside and completely real botanicals can do.

One is artistry from within, the other from without. And that is saying something. Believe me, gin is quite sippable and comes at nice higher proofs.
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Oh dear

Post by da'rum »

in goes your eye out
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Tasteless? Odorless?

Post by bearmark »

I'm a bit confused by this thread. I understand that the marketeers have duped lots of people into buying overpriced products... even so-called experts, who play into the plans of the marketeers by further misleading many others. What I don't understand is the suggestion that all vodkas are essentially equal and the cheapest one is as good as the most expensive one. At the same time, there are references to taste tests that fool even the experts. Which one is it?

About a year ago, I conducted tastings of over a dozen vodkas, including Grey Goose, Ketel One and Belvedere (see previous post). I found that most of the expensive and so-called premium vodkas were the worst tasting (yes, taste!). Grey Goose was one of the worst. The winner for me was Prairie Organic Vodka because it was the lowest priced offering with good flavor that was available in my area. By the way, vodka is purely a mixer for me and not usually in a martini, unless it's flavored... those are so much more interesting with gin. Even with flavored martinis, I prefer gin for mixing with any herbal or spice flavors (try 3 oz New Amsterdam Gin with 1/2 oz of Green Chartreuse... amazing!) and only use vodka for mixing with sweet or fruit flavors. A vodka that disappears into the drink is hardly interesting, while one that provides some complementary enhancement to the taste or aroma is what I'm looking for. The improvement is subtle, but enjoyable for me.

I've heard that the water employed in the dilution process can have significant flavor impact that at least equals the grain used and the distilling and filtering processes employed. With the amount of water required to dilute from 95% ABV, that makes sense to me, especially since water also has taste. I'm not willing to pay for expensive water that has amazing flavor that I can't appreciate, but I expect that the water added to my vodka has good taste. If I find a vodka that approaches the taste of Prairie Organic Vodka for less than $20, then I'm all over it. So far, only the ridiculously priced Crystal Head has done it for me, but I'm going to be on the lookout for Graves Grain Alcohol... that would be a fantastic discovery!
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Post by Capn Jimbo »

Sydney Frank laughed - both with us and at us...


The time was when all vodkas were considered by both the distillers and drinkers as relatively indistinguishable lower shelf buzz-juice, with most selling for maybe $8 to $12. The reasons are simple: the distillation of vodka requires little art as the objective is to eliminate flavor. In fact vodka is defined in the United States as:
US Regulations: “Vodka” is neutral spirits so distilled, or so treated after distillation with charcoal or other materials, as to be without distinctive character, aroma, taste, or color."
The goal is to eliminate aroma, taste or flavor. To achieve this the vodka itself is repeatedly filtered throughout the entire process of production to remove even a hint of flavor. The distillation is to a minimum of 95% or a tad higher, to the limits of purity and as close to pure alcohol as you can get. Even the water that is used is purified, softened and filtered. As a result and for all practical purposes there are no significant congeners. All that remains are trace elements that cannot be removed.

And - once again - paraphrasing Sydney Frank and what became the first "premium" vodka, Grey Goose: "It's just water and alcohol, so if I can triple the price, it's all profit". To achieve this he created one of the great marketing campaigns of all time, from setting up a plant in Cognac, France - simply for the cache - to his amazing bottles and point of purchase demonstrations and promotions. The result:

He was able to sell non-descript, $10 vodka for over $30. Although he was laughed at for trying, the cacophony ceased when he succeeded, and all of his competitors followed his lead. As a result we are presented with all manner of bottles, skulls, ancient glacier water and diamond filtration.

And it's still just practically tasteless water and alcohol, sold at completely unjustified prices to a bunch of prestige seeking assholes. The proof: any number of taste tests in which dedicated, won't drink any other brand fanatics fail time after time to identify their own brand, often reject their own brand, and often prefer bottom shelf competitors.

The key to these taste tests was that they were conducted completely blind for all participants.



Really, it's embarassing.

This is exactly why I devised the ultimate embarassing taste test that didn't even pretend to use even a cheap vodka, but rather plain old, dumbass grain alcohol - a product that doesn't even pretend to compete in any way, including the bottle. The result:

Graves Grain Alcohol, diluted with Walmart distlled water, and out of six name brand vodkas, came in a near tie with Ketel One, the most expensive vodka in the bunch. Worse yet, the first vodka rejected by the testor was his own brand! All of the many blind vodka taste tests had the same result - no one could identify or pick their gotta-have-it brand!

As for Sue Sea and I, we actually preferred the Graves over the Ketel. My suggestion: I'm sure you can find a bottle of either the 190 or 151 proof Graves and dilute it accordingly to bring it to 40% (80 proof). Let it marry for a week, then have at it. The true test is a blind test and all are encouraged to set one - and your vodka loving frieds - up...
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The Rude Hamptons..

Post by Capn Jimbo »

For the Anal Retentive - and - The Rude Hamptons


For those who care - hopefully few beyond moi - here's a few links of the many, many blind vodka taste tests, followed by one of the most amazing stories I've heard for awhile:


1. ABC's 20/20: The taste test included five super-premium vodkas (Ketel One, Belvedere, Hangar One, Stoli Elit and Grey Goose) and one economy brand (Smirnoff). The group's least favorite was Grey Goose, and the testers had a tough time distinguishing between cosmos made with the $62 Stoli Elit and cosmos made with the $13 Smirnoff.

2. Bloomberg's Business Week : Vodkas included Absolut, Popov, Ketel One, Smirnoff, Grey Goose, Belvedere and Vox. Only one - out of many tests - got his brand right, and had to agonize over it.

3. New York Times : Brands here included Vox, Teton Glacier, Below, Oliphant, Skyy, Hanger One, Absolut, Wyborowa, Belvedere, and yup Smirnoff (the least expensive at $13). The winning vodka: Smirnoff.

4. Double Blind Vodka Test : Grey Goose, Monopolowa, Hanger One, Nikolai, Fris, Rain, and yup, $13 Smirnoff. The winning vodka: Smirnoff (even by the Grey Goose lover) with Grey Goose scoring next to last.

5. The Connoisseurs : Another blind test of Luksusowa, Skyy, 42 Below, Level, Chopin and yup - $13 Smirnoff. The winner, oh my - Smirnoff.

6. Business Week Top Vodkas : The vokdas included Popov, Skyy, Karlsson's Gold, Vox, Jean Marc XO, Finlandia, Sobieski, Belvedere, Stolichnaya, Absolut Level, Absolut, Grey Goose and yup - $13 Smirnoff, which outscored all the others (which are in order from low to the high Smirnoff. Only Ciroc and Ketel One edged out the "lowly" Smirnoff.

7. Blind Taste Test : This time it was, from low to high: Skyy, Karkov, Grey Goose, Stoli, Svedka, and a tie for first: Absolut and yup - $13 Smirnoff.

8. The Rude Hamptons : This last is a true story published by a rightfully insulted bartender, who says it best in his own words.
Georgi Vodka Beats Ketel One In Blind Taste Test

As a second job, I work as a Bartender on the weekends for private parties; mostly serving up easy mixed drinks like cosmos and Pinot Grigio to guests who are generally pleasant, friendly and in a good mood. But last Saturday, I bartended for a party that had 2 guests (a couple) who, when they walked into the garden just beamed high maintenance and nasty vibes…….the black cloud over their heads was so visible you could cut through it with a knife.

HE: loudmouth balding middle aged man all dressed in white with lots of gold jewelry. SHE: even louder mouth with a voice from hell that cut through the entire party of about 80 guests, and on the cell phone half the time.

HE: Comes up to my bar and asks for Ketel One on the rocks, where I promptly oblige. Then insists it’s not Ketel One, even though I poured it straight from the Ketel One bottle in front of him. So I discard drink and pour him another one, again from Ketel One bottle. Still insists it’s not Ketel One and slams drink on the bar. I told him to take it up with the host, this is what I was furnished and other people were waiting for drinks, to please step aside. He storms off.

SHE: comes up to the bar shortly after and asks for one of the most expensive reds the host had placed out, in a glass with lots of ice! Even though I raised my eyebrows, I promptly served it to her. She then told me to make her husband another drink and MAKE IT A KETEL ONE THIS TIME. I offered to go into the host’s kitchen, where he had another wet bar and backups for us just in case, and told her would absolutely, positively get Ketel One from the Host’s own private bar.

I went in there and poured the cheap “Georgi” Vodka on the rocks and brought it over to him; he took one sip and said “now that’s the right vodka - and from now on goddammit, when someone tells you it’s not the real thing you better listen” and “I’m going to tell **** (the host) how difficult you were to deal with”!

PS: Insult to injury: SHE never even drank that expensive iced down red wine, just kept coming back for “freshen-ups”. What a crime, this was $400. a bottle wine.

PPS: Further insult: SHE kept coming back to my bar, turning over my clean glasses and discarding her used toothpicks, shrimp shells and cocktail napkins in them like my bar was a garbage dump.

And they wonder why The Locals are “so difficult to deal with”.

- Another Local Yokel Trying to Make a Living off Rude Summer People"

Bottom Line

Those who think they know their vodka, don't. Those that insist on their expensive prestige vodka, really don't. And among all vodkas, $13 Smirnoff does very, very well - not to mention diluted grain alcohol.
Last edited by Capn Jimbo on Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by jankdc »

Ya but Smirnoff is a Diageo brand.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Post by da'rum »

Well noted.

I wonder if there is a way to bugger up neutral spirit?

There is a firm belief in the hobby distilling world that there is a difference in taste if neutral is made from a sugar wash or a grain wash even though azeotrope is reached it still has a extraordinarily small part of the inherited flavour of the wash used still in it. I'm talking part per million here. It is argued that the palate can pick up on this/these parts.

I believe it....however, You would have to be an extraordinarily skilled taster to pick the difference in vodkas made with different washes and diluted with exactly the same water. In fact as mentioned before, I think the difference in classes/preferences lies completely in the water. Maybe cleanliness of distilling apparatuses.

Never the less Vodka is only neutral spirit, it can taste different but is it worth premium pricing or is there such thing as premium vodka? I say nope.
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Up to the Challenge

Post by bearmark »

My objective in selecting a vodka (in my mind, a mixer only) was the lowest price with a distinctly good taste. Of the dozen or more that I tried, only a few were distinctive (and similar) and the cheapest of these was Prairie Organic. I've since offered it up to many Grey Goose, Stolichnaya, Ketel One, etc. drinkers and have immediately switched them over. We didn't even bother with blind tastes, because the improvement was so obvious.

I'm almost out of Prairie Organic and I'm purposely holding back some of it and looking for Graves. If there's something cheaper out there that tastes as good, then I'm grateful for the new find. Prior to Prairie Organic, I was using Tito's and Kirkland Signature from Costco (many people think that this one is made by Grey Goose, but it's significantly better). There's no Costco Liquor Store in Texas, so I had to find an alternative. My max price is $30 for 1.75L since that's the going price for Prairie Organic here. Based on the tasteless :wink: discussion here, I would assume that Everclear would be just as good. I have some of this and distilled water from Wal-Mart, so I'll give it a try. Results are forthcoming.
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